[99gsr01]

I have a 198 HP B18C1 ..tuned on hondata 93 oct. pump gas. I/H/E, HEAD is stock exept for Skunk2 Stage2 cams/springs/retainers, BLOCk is sleeved with forged 84mm 11:1 comp. nitrous pistons & eagle rods. Walboro 255 fuel pump, 440cc RC inj, fuel pressure regulator at 60 psi, I am spraying a direct port 150 shot with all -6AN piping and connectors, Iceman 500 hp solenoids, NOS progressive controller, Hondata is pulling 6 degrees of timing.

I am looking to step up to a 300 shot. I am looking for any advice on what kind of steps I need to take to do this right and SAFELY.

your advice/comments are appreciated

 

[VTECsqznN2O]

198 hp..and you have a 150 shot..explain that one


either way...dump your cams, they have too much overlap for nitrous...lower your compression..add more fuel..

 

[99gsr01]

thats 198 on motor.....

Are you saying maybe a bigger fuel pump? or maybe an additional fuel pump?
How much timing should I pull running 93 oct pump gas?

 

[VTECsqznN2O]

you're going to need a dedicated fuel pump for the nitrous system...and you may need larger injectors as well...I doubt you can pull enough timing to support that high of a shot..I can almost guarentee you can't...you're going to need to run high octane fuel to support that.

 

[99gsr01]

My tuner says he can pull 12 degrees of timing with the hondata...
Is this going to be enough timing pulled? I hear it is 2 degrees for every 50 shot....

Are you talking about just adding a dedicated inline fuel pump to the existing fuel line?
Or do I need to run a dedicated fuel line and pump running from the fuel tank?

thanks for the input... this is good stuff..

 

[VTECsqznN2O]

My tuner says he can pull 12 degrees of timing with the hondata...
Is this going to be enough timing pulled? I hear it is 2 degrees for every 50 shot....

Are you talking about just adding a dedicated inline fuel pump to the existing fuel line?
Or do I need to run a dedicated fuel line and pump running from the fuel tank?

thanks for the input... this is good stuff..

12 might be enough..but i highly doubt it will be enough with pump gas and your compression.

and you can do either or with the fuel pump

 

[MYRAKLE]

if u want that big of a shot do it with a dual stage system and progressive which u already have, bigger injectors like 750 trust me there not that big, tune on race gas, but start low than keep going up in jet side when tuning.[ but the head might not take it] and it should be open headers, cams and comp it's ok.

 

[maxhumper]

get ngk tr5 spark plugs, a wide band 02 with a digital read out and tune it with your hondata and start with a small shot and tune upp and upp and upp untill you cant anymore keep your eye the the wideband and the plugs good luck

 

[festivagt]

Why does he need a 2 stage system? The reason you go to a progressive controller is to bring the larger shots of spray online a bit slower to save the engine - basically the same principle of a multi stage setup. Why retune the engine other than to pull timing out? His injectors and the rest of his setup IS FINE. You are supplimenting the fuel with the nitrous through the direct port nozzles. NO TUNING REQUIRED FROM THE EMS EXCEPT FOR TIMING PULL. While the in tank pump should be able to supply your fueling needs, you should install a seperate inline pump that might even pull some race fuel out of another tank. The race fuel will be MUCH KINDER to your engine than pump gas at that level of squeeze. Especially since you are at such a high compression ratio. at 300hp of nitrous you are close to reaching a 4 cylinders PHYSICAL LIMIT of being able to INGEST the nitrous and fuel.

I would install a fuel cell in the back with a seperate in line pump(somthing NICE, Aeromotive or the like) and have it switched so it can turn on/off when your getting ready to spray, Reprogram the ECU and the progressive controller for what your doing. Fill the cell with 107 MINIMUM(no octane boosters either). At that level the margin for ERROR is VERY SMALL. Your not going to get any second chances with your tuning. Give the supplier for your nitrous parts a call and ask them for reccommended jetting settings and how to. Do it right the first time or pick up the assorted engine parts out of your oil pan later.

HENRY

 

[99gsr01]

well I put an MSD inline fuel pump between the gasfilter and the fuel rail... I left the 255 pump in the tank, and just spliced into the fuel pump wiring...I am still having a "dip" when the nitrous hits.... the fuel pressure gauge drops from 60 psi to 40 psi then back up again...the car just falls on its face for a second then starts pulling... Any idea why I might be getting this "dip" ?

 

[festivagt]

Feed the MSD pump with it's own line from the tank - DO NOT feed it from the other fuel pump. Independancy will be your savior here. That drop in fuel pressure is your engine RUNNING LEAN. The drop is caused by the MASSIVE loss of pressure when you trigger the spray. The intank pump is having a issue feeding both. OR it is simply a lack of voltage to your in tank pump - run fresh wiring from the battery to the MSD and use a switch/relay to arm/disarm it - basically turn it on ONLY when you need it. You should turn it on and let it run so it is pumping BEFORE you start your run, not turning it on when the nitrous solenoids are being triggered shut the nitrous fuel pump down AFTER your run. The factory wiring in hondas is just barely good enough to supply the in tank pump - little alone two pumps. Granted the 255 should be able to feed the MSD pump and your engine, but it is always best to give each pump it's own pickup in the fuel tank or even give it it's own fuel cell to pull fuel from.
HENRY

 

[VTECsqznN2O]

the dip is from the voltage drop

 

[festivagt]

Could also be from the MSD pulling fuel out of the line when he is turning it on - essentially making a void to fill. especially when the injectors duty cycle goes up due to his foot being planted on the accellerator.
HENRY

 

[99gsr01]

I spliced off of the connector at the intank pump at the tank, then I ran 16 ga. wires up to the front of the car to the MSD pump so they run simultaneously....

I guess I should put the MSD on a switch/relay... will it still flow through when it is off?

Should I rewire the intank pump with new wire from the ecu or is it sufficient?

I'll try the rewire first, then maybe running dedicated fuel line/fuel cell for the MSD..

 

[festivagt]

...

Wire the MSD to the BATTERY and put a switch on your DASH to turn it on just before you want to use the nitrous(so it can already be up to pressure). Then turn it off AFTER your run so it isn't constantly pumping. LEAVE THE WIRING TO THE INTANK ALONE. Return the wiring to the in tank pump to stock configuration.
HENRY

 

[99gsr01]

Well I wired the MSD inline pump to the switch/relay/battery with 12ga. wire, and I reconnected the intank pump back to stock configuration.
Still getting the pressure "dip" any ideas now??

 

[clayton]

so it does or doesn't have its own line from the tank?

 

[99gsr01]

so it does or doesn't have its own line from the tank?

NO it does not have it's own line from the tank

I spliced it inline between the fuel filter and the fuel rail...

 

[festivagt]

...

The MSD is pulling a MASSIVE amount of fuel out of the line the intank is pumping on. When this happens - the in tank has to play catch up - this creates the drop in pressure. Of course plumbing the msd to the tank by itself will alleveate that issue - When are you turning on the MSD pump? It should be on and pumping at least 10 - 30 seconds BEFORE you spray. If you have it wired so it turns on when you hit the spray that is 3/4 of your problem. I would still reccommend plumbing the MSD to the tank on it's own dedicated line.
HENRY

 

[99gsr01]

i have a switch to turn it on at least 10 to 30 seconds before a run..

When I do plumb the msd to the tank, will I have to run it directly from the tank, to the MSD pump, to the fuel solenoid? Will I have to have some kind of a fuel pressure regulator also?