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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey guys,
I have a pair of ground controll coilovers right now not yet installed. I want a fairly good pair of adjustable struts. What (and who makes) the best for drag racing? How should i set up my ground contoll coilovers for the track? Are there any other suspension goodies that will help my launching/traction?? Thanks guys!
Ken
 

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stiff as possible in the rear.....jack the rear up...and want all the weight in the front.....with not much weight transfer to the rear.
 

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Re: Re: Need help: DRAG suspension setup

gotboost? said:
koni yellows.
how would koni yellows help????:confused:

if anything eliminating the whole rear suspension and running on blocks would be the best bet.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks for the replys guys..

I am not gonna run blocks in the rear- i know that this would eliminate any chance of rear travel off line, but i usually drive the car around town on the weekends. I am going to go with struts (and i already have ground controll's) my queestion is; who makes the best (stiffest) struts? Is there a company that makes a strut stiffer than all the rest? Someone suggested koni yellows, are these adjustable? Also "hideyoshi" do you know a website where i could read up on and possibly purchase these z10 radious arms? Ive looked in to buying front crossmembers from MMRusa, will these do?
And LOOKatme-- if i jack the rear up and accelerate hard off the line, wont the weight just transfer to the back anyway if i dont run blocks?
Thanks for the help guys :)
Ken
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
..

Thanks SKUNK- ill look into them.. Now ar there any adjustable struts that ar just that much stiffer than al the rest? Kyb? Koni? ect.
Thanks again guys
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
OMG!

PseudoRealityX -- I looked into those koni double adjustable race struts and DAMN just about 2,500$!!! I dont have that much money..
 

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Re: Thanks for the replys guys..

XLR8 GS-R said:
I am not gonna run blocks in the rear- i know that this would eliminate any chance of rear travel off line, but i usually drive the car around town on the weekends. I am going to go with struts (and i already have ground controll's) my queestion is; who makes the best (stiffest) struts? Is there a company that makes a strut stiffer than all the rest? Someone suggested koni yellows, are these adjustable? Also "hideyoshi" do you know a website where i could read up on and possibly purchase these z10 radious arms? Ive looked in to buying front crossmembers from MMRusa, will these do?
And LOOKatme-- if i jack the rear up and accelerate hard off the line, wont the weight just transfer to the back anyway if i dont run blocks?
Thanks for the help guys :)
Ken
yes but you won't transfer as much weight...and more weight will be focused on the front tires to begin with. so more weight on the front(drive) tires to begin with...with less weight transfer means more traction....and better starts. a 1/4 mile mostly deals with getting a good start...which leads to good times.
 

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Re: Re: Thanks for the replys guys..

lOOkatme said:
yes but you won't transfer as much weight...and more weight will be focused on the front tires to begin with. so more weight on the front(drive) tires to begin with...with less weight transfer means more traction....and better starts. a 1/4 mile mostly deals with getting a good start...which leads to good times.
No. That makes no sense.

Longitudinal weight transfer is dictated, mainly, by wheelbase, car weight, center of gravity height, and rate of acceleration. Higher acceleration, weight, or cg will make more weight transfer, while longer wheelbase makes less weight transfer. Now what are you doing by raising the rear end? You're raising the center of gravity. That means you'll get more weight transfer to the rear wheels under forward acceleration. This is great if you're rear wheel drive and want weight transfer to the rear....but we're driving front wheel drive econo-mobiles.....meaning we don't want weight transfer. So we don't want to raise the car at all.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
IntegraR0064

I know exactly what you meen, I was wondering that myself.. If under hard acceleration wouldent the jacked up rear end just be worse because of the physics of hard acceleration= weight to move to the rear. So do u think I should just keep the whole car lowerd to the ground? Or have the front a little bit lower, or what?
 

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NO..jacking the rear of the car will help a lot.

if you guys honestly can't figure out why....well don't do it.

maybe if you went through physics class you could figure it out.

oh and if you raise the rear end....you still have the same spring rates in the rear......so I don't understand what the hell you are talking about.

if you start with 500lbs on each rim fully slammed.....and you jack the rear up. the front tires will have more like 650 on the front two...cause the back is pushed up and its slanting more weight on the front wheels. if you have the same spring rates...the weight transfer will be the same...BUT you trying to move weight up hill with the car jacked up in the rear...its not going to transfer as well....also the car has a lot further distance to travel to even get even.

I don't feel like number crunching it....just take my word for it and look for FWD cars and how they are set up.
 

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lOOkatme said:
if you start with 500lbs on each rim fully slammed.....and you jack the rear up. the front tires will have more like 650 on the front two...cause the back is pushed up and its slanting more weight on the front wheels. if you have the same spring rates...the weight transfer will be the same...BUT you trying to move weight up hill with the car jacked up in the rear...its not going to transfer as well....also the car has a lot further distance to travel to even get even.
hahahaha...I can't believe superhonda has degenerated so much that a moderator would completely bullshit to make himself seem right, and then be adamant about it. From looking around the site, you seem to know your basics pretty well...but don't assume that means you know the more advanced concepts of suspension design as well.

Yes, I've had physics. Quite a bit of it actually. In fact I've had 2 interviews these past two weeks...one with daimlerchrysler and one with honda research...for the job of chassis engineer. I would really love to see you "crunch these numbers" and find that you're right...because you would disprove everything currently known about springs and weight transfer.

OK....first of all. We won't even talk about weight transfer yet. We'll just talk about the corner weights when the car is sitting there before the race. Imagine that the car body is just resting on top of hte springs, and you lift it up off the springs. Then you slowly let it down. Assume equal rate springs in front and rear, and equal height (and that the car has an equal weight distribution to make it easier to see). There are scales under each wheel.

Scenario 1: You slowly let the car down onto the springs, each spring compresses the same amount, and each scale measures the same amount. No surprise there.

Scenario 2: You lift up the rear springs 2". Now put the car down slowly. At first, it only touches the rear springs, so ALL the weight is on the rear tires, correct? You keep going until it gets onto the front springs....NOW the front spring starts getting weight onto it. The front springs do not have to compress as far as the others, so they have less weight on them.

So the front wheels will have less weight on them before going. Then...when you DO drop that clutch and hit the gas....you get more weight transfer to the rear because of the higher center of gravity because half the car's raised. I already explained that in a previous post...if you want me to dig through my textbooks and find the formula for weight transfer so you can crunch some numbers I will...but I know it only involves wheelbase on the bottom of the equation, with center of gravity, weight, and acceleration in the top.

So lOOkatme...like I said, raising the rear is great for rwd cars, but fwd's are completely different. If I'm missing something (which is possible), please enlighten me with something reputable or at least logical.

oh and xlr8: You just want to have the whole car pretty low. Raising the front will put more weight up front, but will also increase weight transfer to the rear, so i'd just keep it low.

Now, yes...some of the extremely fast fwd cars do have a lower front than rear. I believe this is basically just to get as low cg as possible, since weight transfer becomes more important and worth curb weight losses when you have such crazy accelerations. Reason they only lower hte front and not rear is because weight is still transferring to the rear and they want to keep it off the ground and such. But keep in mind, they still want the rear as low as possible...

Hope that helps some people really understand...
 

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opening my big mouth

go find a pack of 4x12 exterior sheetrock...now find a guy taller than you...you carry the front, give him the back...ponder your results


accelerate all you want...youre gonna drop your end long before hes hurting.

thats all i'mna say

Eli
 

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ALL I KNOW IS @ SKUNK2, our drag integra is raised in the rear more than the front, this is for aerodynamics. When the car is launched with massive power and 28"+ slicks the car wants to squat. this lifts weight off the front tires and causes traction loss. With every shift that our great driver TONY SHAGDAY makes, the car, if you look at it from the side, will dip to the rear even with our Skunk2 900lb. drag springs. When the rear dips, the front lifts, which means traction losts and the front catches air. trust me, we researched alot on this @ skunk2. ALSO having the rear raised more than the front from the start compensates for the suspension squat to the rear. If we werent beginning with a raised rear height, there would be more lifting of the front end of the car. why do you think FWD drag racers have wheelie bars as well. For a RWD car you want the rear to squat because all the weight transfers to the rear when you launch and the weight squashes down on the rear which are your drive tires.
 

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Skunk2Integra said:
ALL I KNOW IS @ SKUNK2, our drag integra is raised in the rear more than the front, this is for aerodynamics. When the car is launched with massive power and 28"+ slicks the car wants to squat. this lifts weight off the front tires and causes traction loss. With every shift that our great driver TONY SHAGDAY makes, the car, if you look at it from the side, will dip to the rear even with our Skunk2 900lb. drag springs. When the rear dips, the front lifts, which means traction losts and the front catches air. trust me, we researched alot on this @ skunk2. ALSO having the rear raised more than the front from the start compensates for the suspension squat to the rear. If we werent beginning with a raised rear height, there would be more lifting of the front end of the car. why do you think FWD drag racers have wheelie bars as well. For a RWD car you want the rear to squat because all the weight transfers to the rear when you launch and the weight squashes down on the rear which are your drive tires.
For someone who continually shows off how cool he is for working at Skunk2, you'd think you'd be a little more helpful with your posts...

First of all, nobody is doubting that the rear wants to squat. We all know that. The topic at hand is how ride height bias front to rear effects weight distribution, and weight transfer under acceleration forces.

Secondly, when your amazing driver (i wont say his name in ALL CAPS) decides to shift, upon letting off of the throttle, weight flys forward, since the acceleration forces quit for a moment.

Thirdly, the reason why FWD cars have wheelie bars is already known and understood by all of us "DontWorkForSkunk2People". They are pretentioned onto the ground, and help reduce squat by "lengthening" the wheelbase under launch.
 
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