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Discussion Starter #1
Ok here is the low down... got JDM b18c-r... stock gut and going to boost it with a t2t4 50 trim turbo running 5lbs... its a dd so im not going any higher and dont want to blow out my walls... later on this summer i will drop the compression to 10.1 and boost higher... going to be tuning on crome with a guy that been tuning hondas for over 10 years now so he is pretty good and ive seen his stuff work and last for a long time... any input or warnings would be awesome... or if anyone that has done a job close to this before plz throw your input in also.... and fyi im looking for around 275 to 280 hp...
 

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find a new tuner if he can't tune the stock engine to make 275-280hp on an all stock type r with boost. they'll make 300whp reliably all day long at moderate boost. so 275 hp at the crank is nothing.

only warning is if you're plan is to make big power in the future at 10:1 cr. you need to sleeve the block. but there is no need to do anything other than head studs and a head gasket to make near 300whp.... you have a low power goal so save your money on dropping compression and such.
 

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cool so would 7-8lbs be fine on a itr motor? 5 daily and on the weekends at the track 7-8? im use to a na motor and not boost... and the turbo is a t3t4 50 trim bc i know 5lbs is different to each turbo and set up, or at least thats what ive been reading.
 

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cool so would 7-8lbs be fine on a itr motor? 5 daily and on the weekends at the track 7-8? im use to a na motor and not boost... and the turbo is a t3t4 50 trim bc i know 5lbs is different to each turbo and set up, or at least thats what ive been reading.
t3/t4 50 trim doesn't really tell you anything about the turbo. it's like saying "red mustang" and nothing else about the car.. don't focus on psi and focus on what power you want and where you want it. and yes power per psi varies from turbo to turbo...that's why you need to know the cfm or lbs/min of the turbo you're looking at.

so what kind of power do you want and where do you want it?
 

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well 300hp to the wheel would be awesome but that isnt in my budget right now, so 300 to the crank would make me happy for right now and im looking to picking up in the mid to high rang being a dd and going to the track on the weekends ( 1/4 mile)... and being a high compressed motor isn't it better to have it there so there wont be any detonation? or am i wrong with that? idk i read on a forum the other day that was true but no one answered is statement... and im not sure what type of turbo it is, the guy at the shop is cutting me a deal on it bc he is pulling it off a car that got wrecked in the make but knew it was a really good one and pulled hard and had no issues with it. and my tuner said he can make it work and tune it on crome and make it scream and still be safe doing it.
 

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Detonation is most common at peak tq. A good tuner will know this.

You should read documents on sdsefi's website found here:
EM-4 Tech Page

Check out "pushing it too far" it pretty much sums up what you need to know. And to an extent why lower comp and more boost is better than high comp low boost.

New cars get away with 9.1 and 9.3:1 cr /w boost due to dpfi(direct port fuel injection) and coil type ignition systems instead of a distributor. Which generate a much more precise spark event.

People often pull timing to "bandaid" this problem, but pulling too much timing is counter productive. Just learn what your getting into.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
but doesnt pro honda drag racers run like 11.0 with 30psi? im pretty sure ive read this before some where
 

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but doesnt pro honda drag racers run like 11.0 with 30psi? im pretty sure ive read this before some where
higher..but they don't run pump gas. and they have sleeved, blue printed motors that aren't meant for daily driving......you can run 11:1 but at higher levels of boost you need a sleeved built motor and a good tuner. if you're not gonna sleeve and want to make reliable big power, go with 9:1-9.3:1 CR with pistons, rods, head studs and rod bolts. stock head and cams are fine.

well 300hp to the wheel would be awesome but that isnt in my budget right now, so 300 to the crank would make me happy for right now and im looking to picking up in the mid to high rang being a dd and going to the track on the weekends ( 1/4 mile)... and being a high compressed motor isn't it better to have it there so there wont be any detonation? or am i wrong with that? idk i read on a forum the other day that was true but no one answered is statement... and im not sure what type of turbo it is, the guy at the shop is cutting me a deal on it bc he is pulling it off a car that got wrecked in the make but knew it was a really good one and pulled hard and had no issues with it. and my tuner said he can make it work and tune it on crome and make it scream and still be safe doing it.
ummm 300 to wheels and 300 to the cranks costs the same amount of money... you just the only difference is the amount of boost. they both require the same amount of tuning. at 7 psi on the family of turbos you're talking...that should get you to the 275-280whp range on a conservative tune. shooting for anything less in a turbo engine is a waste of money. but 300whp will be plenty fine on a healthy b18c-r or even b18c-sirg
 

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Discussion Starter #9
ok, the reason why im boosting so low is bc I cant afford the eagle rods and forged pistons just yet... sure i could go ahead and put LS pistons in there but i really would rather do it right the first time. by end of the summer im looking at eagle rods forged pistons, better head studs arp, skunk2 adjustable cam gear, and better head gasket and run around 15lbs on track and 8lbs dd... is this over kill on my b18cr motor? bc i did the motor swap myself and had a guy to send me a chipped p28 ecu with a base map of a itr settings and just in the bay alone im at around 5,300 to 5,500... which i hear is pretty good due to most swaps for a itr motor is 6k plus...
 

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you do not need eagle rods and pistons for 300whp...head studs studs and a good tune will be fine. there is no price difference between 250hp and 300whp. they can be made with the same turbo on the same hardware is what i'm saying. the ITR has a stout bottom end and great head flow. the high compression should allow you to reach 300whp easily with boost on stock components.
 

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but doesnt pro honda drag racers run like 11.0 with 30psi? im pretty sure ive read this before some where
Those race motors also get a lot more maintainence. They don't last long either. Rarely do they last long enough to accumulate carbon buildup that a daily driver will see. Which is a problem for high performance engines as they don't like hotspots generated by the deposits.

Most of these people using 11:1 with boost are also using water/methanol injection to cool their intake charge. Usually pro drag racers have stand alone engine management as well which means they are running a coil setup.

Show me a 11:1 14 lbs of boost Honda running on pump gas(excluding e85)for more than 30k miles.
 

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yeah i have to clean out my tcv all the time bc of carb and i run nothing but 93 in my car!!! but yeah i would never run that high of boost on my motor im only looking a 5-6psi only until i beef up it a little more to handle around 10lbs
 

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Those race motors also get a lot more maintainence. They don't last long either. Rarely do they last long enough to accumulate carbon buildup that a daily driver will see. Which is a problem for high performance engines as they don't like hotspots generated by the deposits.

Most of these people using 11:1 with boost are also using water/methanol injection to cool their intake charge. Usually pro drag racers have stand alone engine management as well which means they are running a coil setup.

Show me a 11:1 14 lbs of boost Honda running on pump gas(excluding e85)for more than 30k miles.
sleeved ones do with forged internals. but they are expensive.



5-6psi only until i beef up it a little more to handle around 10lbs

you really need to stop focusing on PSI...it means nothing. if you want 300whp then make 300whp. the stock engine will handle it.
 

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sleeved ones do with forged internals. but they are expensive.



5-6psi only until i beef up it a little more to handle around 10lbs

you really need to stop focusing on PSI...it means nothing. if you want 300whp then make 300whp. the stock engine will handle it.
yea, but even forged internals can only take so much. reguardless how well tuned a car is at 11:1 comp on pump(93) gas its not gonna last as long as dropping the compression ratio and using a little more boost - albiet more "turbo lag" - but even that is debateable/negligable.

PSI has some meaning, but not like most people consider it, they tend to think of it as "power" I look at it as compressed air that needs to be cooled, more pressure doesn't always mean more power if your operating outside your equipments capabilities: newbies can't get that through their heads lol . great example, my buddy ran 27 psi on a DSM with its stock setup, just MBC'd it and crushed the BOV so it couldn't vent any extra boost made over 14 lbs. the intercooler. massive compressed air = hot, + it was outside that turbos graph, so its efficiency = shit where he was forcing it to run... so even more heat transfered to the air due to low adiabatic %, small sidemout designed to cool 14 psi air max from that turbo was completely overtaxed, became heatsoaked and poped the head gasket. you'll seee this exact thing happen to a guy on youtube. just look up "ricer destroys an engine" if you notice it pops at the end of second gear. Thats exactly where my buddys popped.

I will say that you can run 11:1 + boost on pump gas easily IF the dynamic compression ratio is in a good range for turbo charging, you may have cams that are pretty aggressive and designed for better breathing up high in the rpm range, and run high comp, moderate boost without any issues due to that. Things are possible, but you have to design things to work that way.
 

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forged internals holding up is dependent on turbo, tuning, fuel being used, and amount of boost being pushed off of that turbo. nobody here is talking about running 30psi... moderate boost shouldn't effect longevity if done properly. will it last as long as stock? hell no. will it be manageable if you have common sense. yeah
 

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Discussion Starter #18
ok you guys im car is done and out of the shop! wow i love boost!!!... we re-chipped the ecu and took alot of timing out of it and bla bla bla he was talking another language to me... talking about setting turbo at 3 degrees and what not, i have know idea what he is talking about but anyways... its a 5psi ish and i dont really feel full boost until about 6,000 rpm but i shift around 8,500 and rev limit is at 9,100... well my question is the motor is super hot now ( duh)... the water temp doesnt show over heating at all and still is in the same operating spot it should be at but how hot should my motor get? i mean even touching the valve cover im like wow thats hot! this is my first boosting car so yeah i dont know much.... o and im planing on going to get it dyno real soon to get that really fine tune in... the car runs great and he is a good street tuner but I would really like to get the best tune i can get on this motor... thanks o and if you have any good advice let me know and i will check it out
 

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ok you guys im car is done and out of the shop! wow i love boost!!!... we re-chipped the ecu and took alot of timing out of it and bla bla bla he was talking another language to me... talking about setting turbo at 3 degrees and what not, i have know idea what he is talking about but anyways... its a 5psi ish and i dont really feel full boost until about 6,000 rpm but i shift around 8,500 and rev limit is at 9,100... well my question is the motor is super hot now ( duh)... the water temp doesnt show over heating at all and still is in the same operating spot it should be at but how hot should my motor get? i mean even touching the valve cover im like wow thats hot! this is my first boosting car so yeah i dont know much.... o and im planing on going to get it dyno real soon to get that really fine tune in... the car runs great and he is a good street tuner but I would really like to get the best tune i can get on this motor... thanks o and if you have any good advice let me know and i will check it out
heat wrap manifol, get turbo heat cover, get vented hood....stop beating the piss out of your car.

come to pa if you want really good tune

ROMisBurning.com contact steve
 
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