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so while its out of the ordinary, or easily thrown aside simply by buying better items, it should NOT be thrown aside SIMPLY becuase its lesser.


resourceful > money sometimes. thats why I intended for a manual swap plus cam for my del sol, instead of the usual bullshit B swap
you're on crack.....an manual swap plus a cam still loses to a stock b18b......which isn't even expensive....."b swap bullshit"? are you serious......the only bullshit b out there is the b16 and seriously....who can't beat a b16? cavaliers will roast b16's ......the only times lesser is better is when it's substantially cheaper and out performs the higher end thing you're trying to compete with........resourceful is good when you getting something of quality that you couldn't have had other wise.....


n/a b-series is a waste of time/money period it isn't cheap or effective....now boosting them is another story....but seriously it's a 80whp motor and you're gonan spend thousands of dollars to make 130whp? gtfo
 

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why the hell would you even offer that as solution for someone:confused
because he's a cheap ass...the only reason he didn't opt for the "usual bswap" bullshit is because he can't afford it....it's just cheaper to do a manual swap and a cam....which is fine just don't talk shit on stuff because you can't afford it
 

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ouch dude, i'm hurting for cash to my man. i feel not being able to afford what i want to do. i have a k&n cone filter on the accord but couldn't afford to get the piping for it, it sucks i want the whole setup but can do it.
do it right or go home....save up and do it nothing wrong with saving for more cash...but to do it ass backwards that might end up costing you more in the future isn't bright. i waited 3 years before i could put a larger turbo on my car and coilovers which i did in september....patience is a virtue but i wouldn't talk shit on something more practical just because i can't afford it right now...i still have a tone of shit to do to my car...primarily injectors but i'm not gonna go out of my way for an fpr to make a little more power than if i had saved money for an extra week to do it the right way and not worry about blowing my shit
 

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my b16 never lost to a cavalier
because it's bottle fed with boltons in a 1900 lb hatch you could spray a d-series in a 1900 lb hatch and still break 13's...now a 1999-2000 stock civic si is another story weighing in at 2600 lbs lbs+ without the driver.
 

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i haven't seen any b series lose to a cavalier, or a reg cobalt while we're on that point. i know i've taken an ss in my accord, but not the ss s/c no way. the guy in the ss didn't take it too well because i was able to not only pull ahead of him but get in front of him. he started screaming at me and flipping me off and stuff. i was like "dude, you got beat straight off the line" i only got in front of him after i got half a car ahead so i could flash him because i watched this dude whip in and out of traffic driving like and idiot on the highway, so when i seen him get off the highway(which happened to be a great newly paved back road with no traffic hardly ever) i decided to get off there to just to prove a point to him and to see if my car could handle his or not.
a z24 cavalier is about as fast as a gsr integra at a 1/4 mile track. and who cares about non FI ss's they make like a 145whp and aren't exactly light.
 

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i never lost to a cavalier without the bottle. and spraying a single cam with bolt ons wont get you that deep into the 13's
true i just said in the 13's. and i wouldn't expect you to lose to a cavalier in a 145whp 1900 lbs car :p
 

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That dosen't impress me, the Z24 is metro sexual at best.

Sorry, you won't make me a believer out of that car ever. Biggest piles of shit ever. And whats so diffrent between the Z24 and the rest of em?
Sure, the ECO tec is a strong motor, and the car can be quick, but its still too bad its wrapped up in such a hunk of turd.

I'm still surprised you stand up for these things considering all the FAR superior cars out there, your one of the few and the proud I guess. Maybe yours actually lasted and wasnt broken or being a cheap POS all the time.
considering it's about as fast a stock gsr and it's not hard to get them into the 14's...or that when both are fed some FI they make considerable more tq. i'll give any car props that can make considerably balanced hp and tq at a reasonable rpm....no offense but you drove an integra what makes that car so special outside of the honda community? and z24's don't come with ecotec's they come with ld9's which will putdown 180+hp with a 200 dollar head upgrade...the integras and civics weren't anything to rave about. so i don't know why you make it sounds like you're comparing a kia to a ferrari

90% of the similarly aged hondas on the road or riced out rusted out fart machines that will be lucky to see a 16 second 1/4 mile or are shooting out puffs of smoke because of fucked up ring lands.
 

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why are we defending gsr's and cavaliers?


both suck, end of story. my brothers 91 celica gts rapes both cars in stock trim
yup..... you're definitely no only smoking crack but also shooting it into your penis
Toyota Celicas .com - Specs by Year - 1991 Toyota Celica
Specifications:
All-Trac Turbo 2 Dr Liftback
GT-S 2 Dr Liftback
GT 2 Dr Convertible
GT 2 Dr Coupe
GT 2 Dr Liftback
ST 2 Dr Coupe
Standard engine
4 Cylinder, 2.0 Liter, 200 Horsepower Engine
4 Cylinder, 2.2 Liter, 130 Horsepower Engine
4 Cylinder, 2.2 Liter, 130 Horsepower Engine
4 Cylinder, 2.2 Liter, 130 Horsepower Engine
4 Cylinder, 2.2 Liter, 130 Horsepower Engine
4 Cylinder, 1.6 Liter, 103 Horsepower Engine
MPG (City/Hwy)
19/24
22/30
22/30
22/30
22/30
28/33
Wheelbase
99.4"
99.4"
99.4"
99.4"
99.4"
99.4"
Overall Length
174"
173.6"
176"
176"
173.6"
176"
Curb Weight
3,272 lbs.
2,844 lbs.
2,674 lbs.
2,696 lbs.
2,500 lbs.
2,253 lbs.
 

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previous owner dyno'd this GTS with 262k miles with a new OEM clutch, cold air intake, fresh tune up, and a header. dyno'd at 125whp. this makes me believe toyota under rated teh power by a large amount, cuz that means its actually pushing more like 150 at teh crank stock
and dynojets/dyno packs don't count. and 15% drivetrain loss off of 130 is 110.5 so with a nice header and an intake i'm sure you can pick up 14.5 hp. the 3sge isn't overrated at all.
 

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Its not a terrible motor, but again, as stated is wrapped in shit. Crappy interior quality, panel appointments, and lets not forget everywhere else on the car where GM's legendary quality and reliability shine all over the rest of the car. Sure they were cheap econo box type cars, but when you could buy a Corlolla or a Civic, that will run with little to no maintenance forever, and imo, handle better, be better made quality wise, I'll stick with other cars besides the cav. I've seen too many 1st hand shit out, fall to pieces. Sure, Honda's aren't fast, we know this, but at the same time, there well put together well engineered machines that last, and thats what I go with.
all cars have their problems...older hondas are notorious for rust under the wheel liner. and i wouldn't exactly call a 1995 civic ex the staple point of interior quality on a car.....and the only stupid reliable honda motor that lasted forever and ever was the d-series. h22a and b-series lasted like any other properly maintained 4cyl...hell almost all of them smoke after 120K

not saying the cavalier was a premier vehicle but the hondas and corollas you're talking about weren't exactly awesome either.
 

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Yes, a design defect, but anything rusts under the right conditions, like up here, haha.

I'm not saying a civic has the best either, but its better than what I've seen in a cav. They squeak, crack, buttons fall off ect. Never had this problem with any of the imports I've owned. Keep in mind, I've owned and driven my fare share of domestics, including cav's. Even as far as motors go, as an example, my GSR had 200k on it when I sold it, and its still kicking plenty well. Sure it started a smoking problem at 185k, but shit, find me a motor that dosent burn a small amount of oil with that many miles on it.

But the fact that the cav is the inferior vehicle is no secret in any literature you pick up, and if you had to pick side by side, a civic EX for a cav as an example, I think the choice is pretty clear, but then again, maybe your car actually worked out for you and you liked it, which is fine. But, by and large its not a secret that they were terrible cars and its outdated platform which had basically remained un changed since what, the 80's stayed in production for WAY too long while competitors created models in the class that were FAR ahead of the cav in ALL aspects.
1. that entire post is complete opinion and barely any fact.....cars have problems import and domestic alike......they suffer from the same issues hondas have....hondas squeak burn oil crack ringlands and we all know mileage means nothing on a motor if you take care of it and don't beat the piss out of it. yes a civic ex has a slightly nicer interior than the top of the line cavy but that's based on the owners opinion. and you have not owned a fair share of imports that weren't already owned by previous owners.

2. what do you mean unchanged since the 80's? do you have any idea what you are talking about? they had at least 3 distinct generations with many different engine selections throughout each generation. you're making a blanket statement based on your opinion. what cars that were in the cavy's class were way ahead of it in all aspects.....that's another one of your opinions you're passing off as fact. sure some hondas had nicer interiors considering they cost a little more....but to say "all" aspects is ignorant. it's a mid-tier car meant to save money and get good gas. they were quicker than a good portion of the hondas and got better gas mileage than similar hondas so you are wrong about all aspects. btw

3. you're telling me out of mitsu, honda, nissan, toyota, mazda, chrylser that the cavalier was at the bottom of everything?......nissan's have oiling issues in there motors,...mitsu's need leashes, timing belts, and for 420a motors constant head gaskets on the 3 speed autos, mazda's have just started becoming remotely reliable again etc.......how many 90's hondas that are barely over 100K smoke everytime you hit vtec?....plenty of them do

not saying the cavy is an amazing car but i wouldn't rank a top of the line civic much higher than one

2004 Chevrolet Cavalier Summary


2004 Honda Civic Standard Equipment and Specs

now stfu...the civic did .2 better overall in terms of reliability and gas mileage is also on par...so no they aren't pieces of shit but they definitely aren't gold either
 

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