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OBD-III might as well be called "Over My Dead Body, Iy-yi-yi!" The air quality nazis want to make OBD call home, via cell phone or satellite. They want to know where you drive. They want the ability for the police to pull you over by disabling your engine remotely. This is all to keep the air breathable, by remote monitoring of car emissions. But it's oh-so-much-more, a tired old pattern since the War on Terror essentially vaporized privacy in this country.
bull-mother-effing-shiznit :fu
 

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Looks like my plans for keeping my car for the rest of my life now have merrit.
 
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http://asashop.org/autoinc/may/obd_iii_new.cfm


With the recent approval of regulations governing on-board diagnostics (OBD) information availability, the Automotive Service Association (ASA) has been pleased with the cooperation of the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) in the development of information transfer to repairers. ASA was a strong advocate of independent service shop owners and technicians having access to the same information accessible to new car dealers. The EPA protected these rights in its draft information availability rule and in the final rule published last summer.

One area of concern has been the recent discussion surrounding a waiver of federal preemption to permit California to implement its own OBD regulations. The serious question for independent repairers has been whether our rights will be protected as strongly as in the federal regulations. This is an issue ASA is discussing with regulators and other members of the aftermarket. ASA will make a decision in the near future as to a California strategy on the waiver.

As the OBD II (federal OBD uses the same basic technical standards as California OBD II) debate comes to a close, speculation is already mounting about an OBD III concept in California. OBD III is being discussed as a program to minimize the delay between the detection of an emissions malfunction by the OBD II system and the actual repair of the vehicle. This includes a reading of stored OBD II information from in-use vehicles and the direction to owners of vehicles with fault codes to make immediate repairs. In this concept, faults are picked up by a monitoring technology and reported to a regulator, and the vehicle owner is then directed to get further testing and possible repairs. The debate over controlling vehicle emissions may soon move from what type of testing facilities and test methods are most effective to the complete on-board cycle of fault detection, notification and follow-up testing and repair being discussed in the OBD-III concept.

What types of technology can be used to detect and relay data pertaining to emissions malfunctions? Options include roadside readers, local station networks or satellites. The roadside reader has been tested by the California Air Resources Board (CARB) since 1994. It is capable of reading eight lanes of bumper-to-bumper traffic at 100 miles per hour. It can be used from a fixed location with portable units or a mobile unit. If a fault is detected by a reader unit, it has the capability of sending the vehicle identification number (VIN) plus the fault codes to the regulator. (The term regulator is used broadly here--patrol officers, private contractors or others could be involved, depending on how a program is structured.) The local station network has not been tested by CARB, but would allow a location and monitoring service.

The satellite system can be used with a cellular phone hookup or location monitoring technology. The vehicle would receive an alert via a cellular phone or the monitoring technology. The location, date, time, VIN and OBD II data would be returned to a satellite beacon.

Several issues surround the OBD III concept. From a regulatory perspective, all of the technologies used, other than roadside technology, require a Federal Communications Commission (FCC) license. The possibility of interference with other signals in the same band is of concern. The issues of commercial operators, law enforcement, jurisdiction among state agencies, Intelligent Vehicle Highway Systems, etc., have to be addressed before OBD III is a reality.

How would an OBD-III program prompt further testing and possible repair? An OBD-III program could be incorporated into the current inspection and maintenance (I/M) program. OBD III might also be used to generate an "out-of-cycle" inspection. Once a fault is detected, a notice could be mailed to the vehicle owner requiring an out-of-cycle inspection within a certain number of days or at the next registration or resale, or a citation would be issued. Penalties might include court appearances or fines related to vehicle registration.

A roadside pullover might work this way: the monitoring technology detects a fault, a law enforcement officer stops the vehicle with the fault code, and a technician working with the officer at the scene verifies that a code is set. A citation is then issued requiring testing at a test center, with a time limit for the vehicle owner to do this before a penalty is incurred.

What legal issues arise under OBD III? There seems to be some question as to the "suspicionless mass surveillance" of private property. There is no opportunity to confront or rebut the results; no notice that the vehicle will be tested. Fourth Amendment search and seizure issues tend to arise.

There are obviously technologies and enforcement procedures available to support the OBD III concept. Do the public health arguments as to controlling the severity of air pollution override the constitutional privacy questions involved? What about consent? These are questions that will undoubtedly arise, and could bring a court challenge.

After several court battles with OBD II, the issues are still unsettled as to the California waiver. I/M programs are still to be finalized in several states and the threat of congressional action looms. The concept of bringing all the issues under one program will certainly be controversial, but is being discussed as far as a long-term policy. Independent repairers need to prepare for the next waive of emissions and information issues as they continue to participate in the current debate involving the same.

ASA is working with regulators and other members of the aftermarket to ensure that the independent repairers' interests are included as long-term policies are developed.

--Bob Redding is ASA's Washington representative. He holds a law degree from the George Washington University School of Law.
 
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bojacks said:
i just pray this will only affact california and not the rest of the world...like canada. STAY AWAY FROM CANADA!!
I am with you on that one ALL THE WAY!!!!!....just forget about Canada................














......as if they didnt already :hehe

but seriously that really sux.....
 

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Peteex said:
Looks like my plans for keeping my car for the rest of my life now have merrit.
^ :lol Hahahahaha.....Exact same thing I was thinking.
 

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So there will be a technician riding along in every highway patrol's car??

Seems like a lot of extra money will be needed. Let along all the engineering for new ecu's and wiring layouts. Imagine if you guys participated in the Kyoto Accord :rolleyes
 

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Needless nanny crap IMHO. Why have the car phone home? Monitoring equipment = big waste of tax dollars. If California want's to be big brother about this why not make it they check the OBD system for codes with each oil change or other service. Getting a signal and pulling someone over as soon as the 'puter throws a code is a stupid waste of tax dollars!

As far as car emmisions I have read some things in the world of transportation that would help far more. GE is producing cleaner more fuel effecent locomotives for rail roads. Some of these use hybrid technology. They said if you replaced all the US locomotives with their new ones it would be like taking 1/3 of the cars off the road in the US. Other companies are replacing the yard switchers (the loco's you see in rail yards idling most of the time) with Hybrid units with a smaller engine/generator and large battery packs. They only run when the batterys need to be topped up. This again = less polution. I say give the railroads a tax credit to replace their older equipment. Hey for further incentive the GE ad said they would also save 140,000 gallons of fuel over the life of their new loco.

BTW for those that don't know almost all rail road locomotives are diesel electic, where the engine turns a generator which powers motors in each truck. Since electric power is already in the mix doing hybrids here should be less difficult anyway.
 

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prored2000 said:
Needless nanny crap IMHO. Why have the car phone home? Monitoring equipment = big waste of tax dollars. If California want's to be big brother about this why not make it they check the OBD system for codes with each oil change or other service. Getting a signal and pulling someone over as soon as the 'puter throws a code is a stupid waste of tax dollars!

As far as car emmisions I have read some things in the world of transportation that would help far more. GE is producing cleaner more fuel effecent locomotives for rail roads. Some of these use hybrid technology. They said if you replaced all the US locomotives with their new ones it would be like taking 1/3 of the cars off the road in the US. Other companies are replacing the yard switchers (the loco's you see in rail yards idling most of the time) with Hybrid units with a smaller engine/generator and large battery packs. They only run when the batterys need to be topped up. This again = less polution. I say give the railroads a tax credit to replace their older equipment. Hey for further incentive the GE ad said they would also save 140,000 gallons of fuel over the life of their new loco.

BTW for those that don't know almost all rail road locomotives are diesel electic, where the engine turns a generator which powers motors in each truck. Since electric power is already in the mix doing hybrids here should be less difficult anyway.
i don't get why they don't just do that. the gov is so stupid, i swear. always tampering with shit that doesn't need to be tampered and always wasting money in the wrong places.
 

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whats wrong with just having people go for regular emmisions testing? are they trying to go after the .00001% of drivers who take off the cats between emmision inspections? thats some bullshit invasion of privacy. just like how cops use nightvision now to see into your car at night to see if your wearing your sealtbelt or not. :mad
 

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druuuu said:
whats wrong with just having people go for regular emmisions testing? are they trying to go after the .00001% of drivers who take off the cats between emmision inspections? thats some bullshit invasion of privacy. just like how cops use nightvision now to see into your car at night to see if your wearing your sealtbelt or not. :mad
Seriously doesn't Cali require a yearly check.

Using nightvision to check for seatbelts :noo

From what I was saying before it's time to go after "off road" and non-car poluters. RR diesels, mining and construction equip etc. On road heavy trucks and buses are being forced to clean up soon so why not others. Cars can't be made much cleaner besides getting them to burn less fuel.
 

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Well...I can't complain, since I'll be trailering my car anyways. I'm pretty sure there will be ways to get around this. I would just swap out the stock ecu for a standalone, and swap it back when I need to smog.
 

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prored2000 said:
Seriously doesn't Cali require a yearly check.

Using nightvision to check for seatbelts :noo

From what I was saying before it's time to go after "off road" and non-car poluters. RR diesels, mining and construction equip etc. On road heavy trucks and buses are being forced to clean up soon so why not others. Cars can't be made much cleaner besides getting them to burn less fuel.
every 2 years.. now shut up before you give them ideas. they're watching us.. :ninja
 

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Do these people know new car sales are growing rapidly in China, which has NO pollution controls for new cars? OBDII cars are so clean it's ridiculous... making them just that tiny bit cleaner when millions of cars are being sold as new with no pollution controls at all across the pond is rather pointless. We only have one earth here people.
 

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Theres already tons of cars out there that have "black boxes". They record information like hard braking and what not and then they are erased every few seconds. Unless you are in an accident. Then the info is stored and your insurance company/police have to go through all sorts of shit to get the info out.
 

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OBD3 aint about clean air, more about big brother if you ask me. And Cali is the worst state for all of this. Man im outa here in about a year. I cant take Northern Mexcio much longer :bh .

Also OBD3 might be apart of what there talking about now, how they want to track us and make us pay tax for every mile we drive. I guess the UK is going through with it, and if it happens there its bound to come over here.

Matt
 
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