Physical Limits of STOCK Engines With Nitrous

21589 Views 40 Replies 12 Participants Last post by slocookedrice, Apr 29, 2006

festivagt

Discussion Starter · Mar 23, 2006

Since the Nitrous for Newbies DOESN'T cover this we should find out. The NFN sticky only states reccommended modifications for specific horsepower levels. They don't actually state what each motor type is capable of using and where thier limit is. A d16A1 won't handle as much spray as a B18c3. Info like this is VERY helpful for people wishing to install and gauge what size of nitrous shot thier engine is capable of using. I mean after all, this is a forum about nitrous use on our cars, Why not know where the limits for the motors are with the related nitrous use? So again,

Can we get a running poll of what each block (d's,b's,h's,f's) Basically get an idea of what each motor is safe with and what thier limit might be reguardless of wet/dry nitrous kit use. (physical limit of block/internals/headgasket)

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NationsMostWanted

· #2 · Mar 23, 2006

festivagt said:
Since the Nitrous for Newbies DOESN'T cover this we should find out. The NFN sticky only states reccommended modifications for specific horsepower levels. They don't actually state what each motor type is capable of using and where thier limit is. A d16A1 won't handle as much spray as a B18c3. Info like this is VERY helpful for people wishing to install and gauge what size of nitrous shot thier engine is capable of using. I mean after all, this is a forum about nitrous use on our cars, Why not know where the limits for the motors are with the related nitrous use? So again,

Can we get a running poll of what each block (d's,b's,h's,f's) Basically get an idea of what each motor is safe with and what thier limit might be reguardless of wet/dry nitrous kit use. (physical limit of block/internals/headgasket)

it varies alot wtih tuning and what not. i would say on a d series with stock internals i wouldnt go over 75 shots and with B and H series motor i would say up to 75- 100 shots with tuning to ensure its reliability. anything over 75 shots will require external fuel added with a wet or direct system.

civicN10sec

· #3 · Apr 6, 2006

NationsMostWanted said:
it varies alot wtih tuning and what not. i would say on a d series with stock internals i wouldnt go over 75 shots and with B and H series motor i would say up to 75- 100 shots with tuning to ensure its reliability. anything over 75 shots will require external fuel added with a wet or direct system.

I was always told not exceed 20 hp/per cylinder. I have read some books that were written by credited machanics. They say that a 75 is the most on a street block and that could break something easily.(on stock internals) Also that a 50 shot would be safe for on stock internals. I have a 50 shot on a b18b and it runs fine. the bigger the motor as in cylinders the more of a shot you can handle with stock internals. thas why mustangs can run 100 shot with not problem on like a gt and they get pretty fast. 350z also

bonestock94

· #4 · Apr 6, 2006

an old rule of thumb many ppl go by is 1/2 the crank hp the motor has.

strtciv93

· #5 · Apr 6, 2006

civicN10sec said:
I was always told not exceed 20 hp/per cylinder. I have read some books that were written by credited machanics. They say that a 75 is the most on a street block and that could break something easily.(on stock internals) Also that a 50 shot would be safe for on stock internals. I have a 50 shot on a b18b and it runs fine. the bigger the motor as in cylinders the more of a shot you can handle with stock internals. thas why mustangs can run 100 shot with not problem on like a gt and they get pretty fast. 350z also

so by this theory of adding a certain hp/cyl your saying that a geo metro should run the same shot as an evo or an sti?

Ive always heard to just do half of what your crank hp is like bonestock said

civicN10sec

· #6 · Apr 6, 2006

strtciv93 said:
so by this theory of adding a certain hp/cyl your saying that a geo metro should run the same shot as an evo or an sti?

Ive always heard to just do half of what your crank hp is like bonestock said

I mean you have to take in consideration if something has forged internals. An sti and evo have forged internals i imagine. With the same internals and no turbo yes i do believe so. The evo and sti are designed for a turbo so thats not a really good comparison. Turbo and nitrous is not good you will break something. But a b16z6 and a h22a handle the same shot. Im just saying what NX says on the website. I just thave friends that own domestic , erupean ,and jap cars. Based on what i have seen and read. The more the cylinders the bigger the shot on the motor. I mean it needs more nitrous b/c its simply got more cylinders to go in to make a diff. So a 50 shot wouldnt not give you as much power on a v8 then a straight 4 see what im saying? Thats why mustang gts run like a 100 shot safe b/c they have double the cylinders than we do. seems to make sence to me.

festivagt

Discussion Starter · #7 · Apr 6, 2006

...

NOS suggests 50 for a 4 cyl, 75 for a 6 cyl and 100-125 for a 8 cyl. As far as I know the B18 is capable of a 75 without blinking. Since the manufactuers of the nitrous kits shy on the safe side, lets get edgy. How far can we go without pushing it over on honda engines?

NationsMostWanted

· #8 · Apr 6, 2006

bonestock94 said:
an old rule of thumb many ppl go by is 1/2 the crank hp the motor has.

i would think that would be a common sense type situation. if u motor has 100hp stock...would it be obivious it wont handle 125 shots of nitrous

my buddy had a stock crx si with a 125 shots direct port. :bye but for the week or so that it ran...it was a beast!! :number1

strtciv93

· #9 · Apr 7, 2006

civicN10sec said:
I mean you have to take in consideration if something has forged internals. An sti and evo have forged internals i imagine. With the same internals and no turbo yes i do believe so. The evo and sti are designed for a turbo so thats not a really good comparison. Turbo and nitrous is not good you will break something. But a b16z6 and a h22a handle the same shot. Im just saying what NX says on the website. I just thave friends that own domestic , erupean ,and jap cars. Based on what i have seen and read. The more the cylinders the bigger the shot on the motor. I mean it needs more nitrous b/c its simply got more cylinders to go in to make a diff. So a 50 shot wouldnt not give you as much power on a v8 then a straight 4 see what im saying? Thats why mustang gts run like a 100 shot safe b/c they have double the cylinders than we do. seems to make sence to me.

i think it would be betyter to go off of displacement

9400rpms

· #10 · Apr 7, 2006

my type-r motor has handled a 75, 80 and 100 shot direct port dry no problems.. stock block..

civicN10sec

· #11 · Apr 7, 2006

9400rpms said:
my type-r motor has handled a 75, 80 and 100 shot direct port dry no problems.. stock block..

crazy, b/c my brother has type r pistons in his gsr motor and my shop said type r pistons should be kept n/a. Im not saying that you cant go forced induction on them but they said something about the material of the piston isn't good for it. I will get more info on it. So dont flame on me. I have a valid point just want to post correct info. But 100 shot on a type r you got lucky. The compression is insane on a type r. Its like 11 to 1. I dont think the liter size matters. If so not muh. B/c you can have like a 5.7 L v8 or a 7.2 L v8 or a v10. You can have a 4.9 l v8 ya know. It has more to do with compression ratios and number of cylinders. It's simple, higher compression the less space. The less space. The less boost/nitrous. Bigger the compression the more space, the more oxygen you can put in the cylinder. If you put alot of boost on high compression everyone knows what happens. As far as my theory about the number of cylinders now if you have high compression on a 6 + culinder engine , you still have to fill more cylinders on a 6 or a 8 rather than a 4. So a 50 shot would be less power to a 6 cylinder than a 4 cylinder. You would need a bigger shot b/c it just needs to fill more cylinders.

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Slowtime

· #12 · Apr 8, 2006

this a good thread, thanx!

9400rpms

· #13 · Apr 8, 2006

civicN10sec said:
crazy, b/c my brother has type r pistons in his gsr motor and my shop said type r pistons should be kept n/a. Im not saying that you cant go forced induction on them but they said something about the material of the piston isn't good for it. I will get more info on it. So dont flame on me. I have a valid point just want to post correct info. But 100 shot on a type r you got lucky. The compression is insane on a type r. Its like 11 to 1. I dont think the liter size matters. If so not muh. B/c you can have like a 5.7 L v8 or a 7.2 L v8 or a v10. You can have a 4.9 l v8 ya know. It has more to do with compression ratios and number of cylinders. It's simple, higher compression the less space. The less space. The less boost/nitrous. Bigger the compression the more space, the more oxygen you can put in the cylinder. If you put alot of boost on high compression everyone knows what happens. As far as my theory about the number of cylinders now if you have high compression on a 6 + culinder engine , you still have to fill more cylinders on a 6 or a 8 rather than a 4. So a 50 shot would be less power to a 6 cylinder than a 4 cylinder. You would need a bigger shot b/c it just needs to fill more cylinders.

With the right tuning anything is very possible..and BTW my compression is 11.6:1+ i dont know for sure what it is, but i'm holding down 255 PSI per cyl across the board on a compression test and 250= 11.6:1+ CR so i know for sure i have at least that if not more..and believe me..its killer although the motor has only seen 100 shot twice i still think thats good, over all on the car it is n/a...i have the Gas on it for only extreme use..right now i put my 80 shot nozzles back in.. anyway.

NationsMostWanted

· #14 · Apr 8, 2006

9400rpms said:
With the right tuning anything is very possible..and BTW my compression is 11.6:1+ i dont know for sure what it is, but i'm holding down 255 PSI per cyl across the board on a compression test and 250= 11.6:1+ CR so i know for sure i have at least that if not more..and believe me..its killer although the motor has only seen 100 shot twice i still think thats good, over all on the car it is n/a...i have the Gas on it for only extreme use..right now i put my 80 shot nozzles back in.. anyway.

thats cool if u run the 100 shots dry fine. i guess im wrong and its safe and possible to run 100 shots dry anything is possible like u say. in that case why not run a 500 shot dry with the right tuning...there should be a limit to everything

NationsMostWanted

· #15 · Apr 8, 2006

9400rpms said:
my type-r motor has handled a 75, 80 and 100 shot direct port dry no problems.. stock block..

do u knoe the difference between wet, dry and direct port? whats a direct port dry? :confused

9400rpms

· #16 · Apr 8, 2006

NationsMostWanted said:
thats cool if u run the 100 shots dry fine. i guess im wrong and its safe and possible to run 100 shots dry anything is possible like u say. in that case why not run a 500 shot dry with the right tuning...there should be a limit to everything

Ya, kool i've yet to fine mine..but i'll let u know sooner or later i'm sure..been told reving to 9400+ on a stock bottem end wouldn't last..recently after i took my head off and still saw the stock cross hatching and hone marks and my pistons in godly condition, i call those who said it couldn't be done, idiots..going on a 1.3 years still pulling strong.

NationsMostWanted

· #17 · Apr 8, 2006

9400rpms said:
Ya, kool i've yet to fine mine..but i'll let u know sooner or later i'm sure..been told reving to 9400+ on a stock bottem end wouldn't last..recently after i took my head off and still saw the stock cross hatching and hone marks and my pistons in godly condition, i call those who said it couldn't be done, idiots..going on a 1.3 years still pulling strong.

yea i been going 4 years on stock block also. everything done myself

9400rpms

· #18 · Apr 8, 2006

NationsMostWanted said:
do u knoe the difference between wet, dry and direct port? whats a direct port dry? :confused

I'm not an idiot, i wouldn't be talking on this fourm if i was..your asking me if i know the difference's like i'm an idiot..so i'll school you really quick..
Direct port is when the jet/nozzle is in the runner itself, This is DIRECTLY to the running's of the head..thats where its being sprayed.. a Wet shot, is considered wet because well you guess it smart ass, its not just n2o, its gas mixed, Dry is just str8 n2o..a simple setup is usually in the intake of the car, not the intake manifold...which is considered direct, now the term FOGGER, is used when the Gas/n2o is mixed in a direct port, hinting the name 100 shot Fogger system, and it sprays a flat mist across the runner..

A wet shot is safer to a certain an extent, using big shots like me usually takes a dry shot and if ur running the right injectors for the job it poses no threat, you also can make MORE power out of a DRY Shot in 75+ then u could on a lower shot..

I run dsm 450cc's i've sprayed this motor maybe 6 times...no problems...there's a pretty much stock internal jdm gsr running around here with a 125 fogger shot on it still running been on the bottle for about 3 years.

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9400rpms

· #19 · Apr 8, 2006

NationsMostWanted said:
yea i been going 4 years on stock block also. everything done myself

Good read my sig, we're on the same page.

NationsMostWanted

· #20 · Apr 8, 2006

9400rpms said:
I'm not an idiot, i wouldn't be talking on this fourm if i was..your asking me if i know the difference's like i'm an idiot..so i'll school you really quick..
Direct port is when the jet/nozzle is in the runner itself, This is DIRECTLY to the running's of the head..thats where its being sprayed.. a Wet shot, is considered wet because well you guess it smart ass, its not just n2o, its gas mixed, Dry is just str8 n2o..a simple setup is usually in the intake of the car, not the intake manifold...which is considered direct, now the term FOGGER, is used when the Gas/n2o is mixed in a direct port, hinting the name 100 shot Fogger system, and it sprays a flat mist across the runner..

A wet shot is safer to a certain an extent, using big shots like me usually takes a dry shot and if ur running the right injectors for the job it poses no threat, you also can make MORE power out of a DRY Shot in 75+ then u could on a lower shot..

I run dsm 450cc's i've sprayed this motor maybe 6 times...no problems...there's a pretty much stock internal jdm gsr running around here with a 125 fogger shot on it still running been on the bottle for about 3 years.

i never said ur an idiot bro. im just asking u if u knew. ur the last person i need to school me. ive had my nitrous kit running for the past 4 years or so. in both my motors. ive done both dry, wet, and direct system. ive installed every nitrous system made in both import and domestics. ive been an automotive technician for the past 5 years. ASE certified with a smog license as well. ive been on here correcting many of the people on this board for many years and i have put countless hours into helping with both diagnostics and emissions related failures here. so i cant say just because ur on here doesnt means u knoe anything. i can do anything and have done everything on a car(including import, domestic, and euro) except rebuild transmissions

as for the dry and direct thing. isnt a direct port system mixing fuel and nitrous directly into the intake runners as well? so how can u say its still a dry system? a direct systems runs with both a nitrous and fuel solenoid similair to a wet system cept its not ran thru the intake. a dry system only has a nitrous solenoid and no fuel solenoid. all direct port systems have a nitrous and fuel solenoid. :byye

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