[ABTsportsline]

Hello,
don't really know whether to post this in the engine forums or the civic forums, but since the main question deals with the car itself i guess i'll post here.

I don't own a civic yet, but am looking to purchase one. i don't really know anything of hondas except they are cheap and reliable. I recently bought my wife a 2004 CR-V, and we love it. Back in the day i was part of the VW crew, having numerous GTI VR6's and had fun with them. Then i graduated to BMW and most recently, MINI.

I am looking to cut my costs now that i have a new child, plus i want to still have fun. I will send the MINI off, and probably purchase a very old civic.... i don't quite know what i want yet in terms of what year or what not, but it will largely go based on what is easiest and cheapest to do for what i want to do.

ultimately I want to do an engine swap - not myself mind you, but hopefully at a local shop. I want the car to be a sleeper (i'm not a big fan of wings, bodykits, rims or anything.... and i need a 4-door because of the baby and wife.... i also want a manual to retain the fun factor. I was looking at the '92-'95 civic sedan 5-speed (works perfect for me) and the '90 - '93 accord sedans 5-speed (larger and older-looking, but seems to work).... i like both body styles but could also settle for the '88-'91 civic sedans if absolutely necessary as well.

i have come from internet researching to realize the "apparent" golden swap for hondas is the B16a for the civics, or H22 for the accords... is this correct? there are hundreds of pages on the internet all saying different things, and not many being of much help...

Ultimately, i want to know which is easiest, most fun, most fuel efficient, and cheapest to do? I have a MINI Cooper S right now, and am going to sell it to make some money - i figure i can build a honda just as fast and economical and pocket some serious dough.

I have been scouring the internet looking for information regarding swaps, but i just find a lot of garbage really - no hardcore serious info. random forum questions, people complaining about companies, or modifications to people's personal rides seems to be the primary search results...

my biggest concern is WHERE to buy the swap kit from, which kit to get, and who to install it? apparently there are no places in san antonio that can do this, or at least i haven't seen on the internet. is there a page with dealers/mechanics listed in different areas anywhere? how about a step by step guide to swaps and what is recommended.

finally, if you guys were in my shoes, which car and swap would you do? keep in mind i DO have a budget - no more than $4 G's for the car (if it were stock) and hopefully no more than $4 G's for the swap itself INSTALLED (including engine, tranny, and ECU).

I am weary of buying a previously swapped car simply because most of them are... well... there really is no polite way to say it but, they are made extremely heinously ugly. We all know it - people with poor taste seem to flock to the civic and make it ugly. I want a bone-stock looking civic with a B16 in it.... i am not going to lower it, not going to put rims on it.... bone stock looking. i merely want it for my personal enjoyment, not to race 18 year olds on the street. the most modified version i'd consider would be maybe springs and rims... but they'd have to be in good taste. no fancy paint jobs or wings.

If i can find one used that has little or no modifications to the exterior, i'd rather just buy that as i'm assuming all the hard work has been done, but i haven't seen any previously done swaps that are *not* in hatchbacks.

any and all opinions are GREATLY valued and i appreciate ANY direction you guys can point me (to include links to other threads that cover this more in detail). plus just your personal opinion if you were in my shoes.

please, educate me!

thanks

 

[hobie237]

if you buy an accord, get the v6 and no swap required... for a civic i would go B18

 

[96civic3door]

I really think your best bet is to go with a 4 door GSR Integra,they allready have a B18C1(1.8l dohc vtec 180hp) and are tons of fun to mod,Thee Accords are rather heavy to be modding IMHO and being you seem to like light cars(mini,GTI's) a 92-95 civic 4 door may be perfect.

Check out the 4 Door thead (link in my sig) there are tons of people that will help you there

 

[egvtec]

I really think your best bet is to go with a 4 door GSR Integra,they allready have a B18C1(1.8l dohc vtec 180hp) and are tons of fun to mod,Thee Accords are rather heavy to be modding IMHO and being you seem to like light cars(mini,GTI's) a 92-95 civic 4 door may be perfect.

Check out the 4 Door thead (link in my sig) there are tons of people that will help you there

:nod

 

[ABTsportsline]

I really think your best bet is to go with a 4 door GSR Integra,they allready have a B18C1(1.8l dohc vtec 180hp) and are tons of fun to mod,Thee Accords are rather heavy to be modding IMHO and being you seem to like light cars(mini,GTI's) a 92-95 civic 4 door may be perfect.

Check out the 4 Door thead (link in my sig) there are tons of people that will help you there

thanks for the help! what year are the 4-door GSR's?
(so i may do a search)

EDIT: you know what? after looking at pictures, i really like the looks of the civic and its interior better (call me crazy, but i just like the civic better).

plus i can't find any GS-R sedans on ebay or autotrader.

 

[hobie237]

I really think your best bet is to go with a 4 door GSR Integra,they allready have a B18C1(1.8l dohc vtec 180hp) and are tons of fun to mod,Thee Accords are rather heavy to be modding IMHO and being you seem to like light cars(mini,GTI's) a 92-95 civic 4 door may be perfect.

Check out the 4 Door thead (link in my sig) there are tons of people that will help you there

accords are heavy for me too... thats why i advise to stick with a v6 and not piddle around with 4cylender engines in them....

 

[ABTsportsline]

accords are heavy for me too... thats why i advise to stick with a v6 and not piddle around with 4cylender engines in them....

maybe i should stick to civics then...

i was trying to avoid getting a 6'er.

thanks for the input.

 

[hobie237]

maybe i should stick to civics then...

i was trying to avoid getting a 6'er.

thanks for the input.

how big of a family are we talking? because i, as a single male, would probobly choose a del sol or s2000...

 

[ABTsportsline]

how big of a family are we talking? because i, as a single male, would probobly choose a del sol or s2000...

both are way out of the price range... if i was going to go S2000 i'd just keep the Cooper - it'd be cheaper for me. a Del Sol that i would want would also be pushing the border of affordability...

i have a wife and a child, with another child a year or so out (planned). we most likely will use our CR-V for family trips, but in case i need to pick up kids from daycare, etc... a sedan is necessary. (plus to convince the wife the car i'm getting is kosher - she is partly the reason for the separation of me from the cooper)

my work is also right across the street from my house.. i just want a casual beater/fun car.

 

[hobie237]

remind me why ur getting rid of the mini? :bh

 

[ABTsportsline]

remind me why ur getting rid of the mini? :bh

LoL, $$$

If you could sell your car, and pay off ALL your bills with the proceeds AND buy a replacement car that is just as fast but more practical, AND remove your car payment saving you almost $1,000 a month in total bills, i think you'd do it too!

besides, i've had the mini for a year.... i've had my fun with it. time to move on (i get new cars every year or so).

 

[kommon_sense]

I'm not understanding your logic. If you are trying to cut costs, then buying a very old civic and *PAYING A SHOP* to do the swap doesn't seem like a good idea. You are looking at $3-5k for an old civic in good shape, then another $4-6k to have a *SHOP* do a turnkey solution for your swap (assuming a b-series swap, even more for a k-series). Then you will need to drop another $1500 to get a good suspension... All of this and you still have a car with a blue book value of about $4-5k...

Anyways... IMO, the key to a budget civic is DIY... Get an older civic (92-00). Drop in a fresh D16Y8 (96-00) or D16Z6 (92-95) motor and slap on a mild turbo kit and some suspension work... Put down around 180whp reliably and daily driven. when you are done with the car, sell the turbo kit...

 

[hobie237]

I'm not understanding your logic. If you are trying to cut costs, then buying a very old civic and *PAYING A SHOP* to do the swap doesn't seem like a good idea. You are looking at $3-5k for an old civic in good shape, then another $4-6k to have a *SHOP* do a turnkey solution for your swap (assuming a b-series swap, even more for a k-series). Then you will need to drop another $1500 to get a good suspension... All of this and you still have a car with a blue book value of about $4-5k...

Anyways... IMO, the key to a budget civic is DIY... Get an older civic (92-00). Drop in a fresh D16Y8 (96-00) or D16Z6 (92-95) motor and slap on a mild turbo kit and some suspension work... Put down around 180whp reliably and daily driven. when you are done with the car, sell the turbo kit...

yeah man... me and my buddy got a b18 motor for his civic, built the hell out of it and dropped it in...

it was on a stand for about 2 months and we built it in our spare time, but that was the cheapest way to do it...

 

[ABTsportsline]

I'm not understanding your logic. If you are trying to cut costs, then buying a very old civic and *PAYING A SHOP* to do the swap doesn't seem like a good idea. You are looking at $3-5k for an old civic in good shape, then another $4-6k to have a *SHOP* do a turnkey solution for your swap (assuming a b-series swap, even more for a k-series). Then you will need to drop another $1500 to get a good suspension... All of this and you still have a car with a blue book value of about $4-5k...

Anyways... IMO, the key to a budget civic is DIY... Get an older civic (92-00). Drop in a fresh D16Y8 (96-00) or D16Z6 (92-95) motor and slap on a mild turbo kit and some suspension work... Put down around 180whp reliably and daily driven. when you are done with the car, sell the turbo kit...

thanks for your input.

I am by no means a mechanic and probably couldn't change my own oil. I am not concerned about resale on the civic i'm going to purchase. i am concerned with getting out of a car payment and paying my bills off.

civics are inexpensive to find and tune. By the way i said i wanted to pay "no more than $4,000", not that i actually received a quote of that. I have found a local shop that will only charge $500 for the install... there are plenty of places online that sell "kits" for around 2500.... the car i'm buying is only $1500 (straight body and nice paint, just very, very high miles). right now i'm sitting at a converted civic for around 4,000. i'm not going to modify the suspension (maybe replace a worn strut if necessary), maybe just upgrade the brakes for safety. not going to put rims or anything else on it.

all in all, spending 4-5 g's on a car that comes close to my mini's performance, yet has the practicality of 4 doors and no car payment - doesn't sound that bad.

oh yeah, also i wanted to stay NA..... my last 3 cars have been FI and i miss the NA. less things to break and worry about. not to mention FI would add a premium to the install/swap costs, which would all but even out in the end with a b-series costs...

right?

i guess the biggest question now is b16 or b18? for my uses: daily driver, never track, all city driving.

 

[gurusan]

You might want to reconsider at least mildly upgrading the suspension....stock civic suspension really isn't tight at all.

If this is a daily driver I suggest a b18b. They are very cheap and have decent torque for daily driving.

A b16 would be more expensive....and other people will tell you different.....but I have a b16 in my 93 coupe and it's just plain annoying to drive. I can't stand not having any power under 3500 RPM or so.....so I'm putting on a turbo kit...possibly ball bearing.

 

[kommon_sense]

if you don't redo the suspension and tires then the car won't come close to the mini...

 

[hobie237]

if you don't redo the suspension and tires then the car won't come close to the mini...

the handling of the civic is enough to satisfy many tastes, and unless hes doing autox, the suspension mods arent really worth it all that much... but i would say different tires would do a world of good...

 

[ABTsportsline]

thanks guys so much for your input.

i bought the car today, so now i officially have it.

i won't be autocrossing, and don't expect it to handle anywhere close to the mini.
i would be open to getting springs, but only if they don't lower it too much as the roads here are crappy and there are speedbumps in every neighborhood.

any suggestions?

 

[96civic3door]

ok you have the civic get a B20 and if you wanted to later on you could do a CR/VTEC(B20 from CRV and the head off a B16 VTEC )

use a B16 tranny

 

[ABTsportsline]

thanks for the input, but that just seems so much work. i'm lazy and have no mechanical skills myself

right now i am leaning towards the b18c right now. it has the torque, and while more expensive it would be just so trick to have in there. and it would make that one on-ramp i face everyday that much more fun!

thanks guys.

and i concur - 4 doors are the best!