Skunk2 Rear Sway bar help.........
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Did you also get a beaks reinforcement kit? That 21mm rear sway is gonna rip out your subframe without one.
Also, what size sway do you have in the front?
Also, what size sway do you have in the front?
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The beaks reinforcement kit will reinforce your subframe to prevent the rear sway bar from ripping out the subframe. You run the risk of ripping it out anytime you use a 19mm bar or bigger.
Also, if you don't have a front sway bar, I would not recommend adding a rear that large. Personally, I wouldn't add a rear at all. You will induce a lot of oversteer which WILL make your rear end more likely to break loose while cornering. If you are a good driver then you can compensate and be ok, but if you loan the car to your girl/boy to go to the grocery store, they could end up spinning out and swappin ends if they try to take a corner too hard. Not good.
One of the important things to remember about suspension and particularly sway bars is that it isn't about how big your bars are. You are trying to achieve a certain balance with your car. Too much on one end and the car is out of balance. So adding such a large rear with nothing up front would be way out of balance and could potentially cause an accident. Another thing to remember is that you can't substitute a large sway bar for having the appropriate shocks/springs.
If I were you, I wouldn't use a bar that large until I had upgraded the shocks/springs, and I already had the appropriate bar ready to be installed up front.
I was running with a stock 22mm front bar and added a 13mm rear and it was great for daily driving. The 21mm rear that you are installing is roughly 261% stiffer than the 13mm that I am using. I just recently installed new shocks/springs and only now do I think my car could benefit from larger bars. I'm looking at a 26mm front and still only a 19mm rear.
Sorry for rambling, but wanna make sure you know that you could be in for trouble if you only add a rear, especially one so large.
Also, if you don't have a front sway bar, I would not recommend adding a rear that large. Personally, I wouldn't add a rear at all. You will induce a lot of oversteer which WILL make your rear end more likely to break loose while cornering. If you are a good driver then you can compensate and be ok, but if you loan the car to your girl/boy to go to the grocery store, they could end up spinning out and swappin ends if they try to take a corner too hard. Not good.
One of the important things to remember about suspension and particularly sway bars is that it isn't about how big your bars are. You are trying to achieve a certain balance with your car. Too much on one end and the car is out of balance. So adding such a large rear with nothing up front would be way out of balance and could potentially cause an accident. Another thing to remember is that you can't substitute a large sway bar for having the appropriate shocks/springs.
If I were you, I wouldn't use a bar that large until I had upgraded the shocks/springs, and I already had the appropriate bar ready to be installed up front.
I was running with a stock 22mm front bar and added a 13mm rear and it was great for daily driving. The 21mm rear that you are installing is roughly 261% stiffer than the 13mm that I am using. I just recently installed new shocks/springs and only now do I think my car could benefit from larger bars. I'm looking at a 26mm front and still only a 19mm rear.
Sorry for rambling, but wanna make sure you know that you could be in for trouble if you only add a rear, especially one so large.
Don't appologize for rambling, cause your not at all. I am not up tp par when it comes to knowing all there is to know about suspension, so I appreciate everything that you can give me. All I do is drive the car as a daily driver, so I understand. I will say that the rear of my car sways all over the place, and thats why I purchased the bar, plus I got it a good price, not even looking into the issue of size. I will say i did think that the bigger would be the better. So I would like to use the sway bar, so should I get the front one or no?? I called skunk and they said I might want to get the reinforcement kit as well, cause I am running Neuspeed springs and KYB struts, so he said since the neuspeed springs arn't as stiff as some of the other brands, that I might want to get that kit.
I just wanted some info, and you gave me just that...thanks for the knowledge...I am gonna do some research before I do anything. Thanks again
I just wanted some info, and you gave me just that...thanks for the knowledge...I am gonna do some research before I do anything. Thanks again
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Have you taken a good look at your tires?
There are roughly 3 things to look at when looking at sway bars (or anti-roll bars).
1. Do I have too much oversteer? Meaning steering is very responsive and rear end sometimes breaks loose while the front end is stable.
2. Do I have too much understeer? Meaning car has tendency to drift or push through turns. So you try to take a turn but the car wants to keep going in the direction that it was going. In this case, your front end has broken loose, but the rear is planted.
3. Chassis roll. You hit a turn and the whole car leans and you feel like you are about to fall out of your seat.
Everything that I am about to say is assuming that you have good tires, and shocks/springs are in good working order.
For #1, you would want to move up to a larger front sway bar. This will actually cause you to loose a little steering (only noticeable when cornering), but it will change the overall balance of the car such that the rear end shouldn't break loose.
For #2, you would want a larger rear sway bar. This will actually cause you to gain a little steering.
For #3, the bigger the better. The bigger the bar, the less the chassis will roll. However you can also adjust this with how stiff your springs are and the amount of dampening in your shocks.
The thickness of the bar basically tells you how well it will do its job. However you have to pick the appropriate sized bar for your application because it is all about balance. For example, if you were running the 3-legged race, you wouldn't pair Carl Lewis up with a 5-year old. Yeah, Carl is fast, but the end result isn't gonna be pretty. You have to get the right sizes to get the desired results.
Another way to remember how to pick the bar is if you have traction problems on one end of the car, you put the bar on the opposite end. Not enough traction up front, put the bar in the rear, and vice versa.
Also remember that it is generally safer to have understeer as opposed to oversteer. Reason being if the front end doesn't want to turn, you can usually just hit the brakes, slow down and you are ok. However if you have oversteer, there isn't much that you can do once the rear end starts to break loose, unless you are a good driver.
There are roughly 3 things to look at when looking at sway bars (or anti-roll bars).
1. Do I have too much oversteer? Meaning steering is very responsive and rear end sometimes breaks loose while the front end is stable.
2. Do I have too much understeer? Meaning car has tendency to drift or push through turns. So you try to take a turn but the car wants to keep going in the direction that it was going. In this case, your front end has broken loose, but the rear is planted.
3. Chassis roll. You hit a turn and the whole car leans and you feel like you are about to fall out of your seat.
Everything that I am about to say is assuming that you have good tires, and shocks/springs are in good working order.
For #1, you would want to move up to a larger front sway bar. This will actually cause you to loose a little steering (only noticeable when cornering), but it will change the overall balance of the car such that the rear end shouldn't break loose.
For #2, you would want a larger rear sway bar. This will actually cause you to gain a little steering.
For #3, the bigger the better. The bigger the bar, the less the chassis will roll. However you can also adjust this with how stiff your springs are and the amount of dampening in your shocks.
The thickness of the bar basically tells you how well it will do its job. However you have to pick the appropriate sized bar for your application because it is all about balance. For example, if you were running the 3-legged race, you wouldn't pair Carl Lewis up with a 5-year old. Yeah, Carl is fast, but the end result isn't gonna be pretty. You have to get the right sizes to get the desired results.
Another way to remember how to pick the bar is if you have traction problems on one end of the car, you put the bar on the opposite end. Not enough traction up front, put the bar in the rear, and vice versa.
Also remember that it is generally safer to have understeer as opposed to oversteer. Reason being if the front end doesn't want to turn, you can usually just hit the brakes, slow down and you are ok. However if you have oversteer, there isn't much that you can do once the rear end starts to break loose, unless you are a good driver.
Not to beat a dead horse... kommon_sense has said it all perfectly. But I just wanted to second his motion that you stay away from a rear bar... especially if you're still on stock springs.
A 21mm bar is for transferring weight on MUCH heavier rated springs than a stock set. Putting that bar on a stock suspension is a formula for serious snap oversteer... to the point of being downright dangerous.
If you need to make adjustments to your suspension/handling, do it in new spring/shock settings looong before you stick a 21mm bar in the back.
A 21mm bar is for transferring weight on MUCH heavier rated springs than a stock set. Putting that bar on a stock suspension is a formula for serious snap oversteer... to the point of being downright dangerous.
If you need to make adjustments to your suspension/handling, do it in new spring/shock settings looong before you stick a 21mm bar in the back.
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after i put our bar on, the front end breaks loose now. the rear is very stable and stays planted. anybody know why? LS=22 mm front bar.
Anyways if you are running atleast 400lb. springs then you are fine. Iam running our coilovers and there is no chassis tear out.
Anyways if you are running atleast 400lb. springs then you are fine. Iam running our coilovers and there is no chassis tear out.
If you have a 22mm bar in front and your front is what breaks loose... then there's your problem.
There's a thread somewhere called 'suspension 101' that explains the how and why of sway/antiroll bars. It will teach you all you need to understand why a swaybar isn't always a good thing.
I cant remember exactly where it is, but do a search and you'll find it.
There's a thread somewhere called 'suspension 101' that explains the how and why of sway/antiroll bars. It will teach you all you need to understand why a swaybar isn't always a good thing.
I cant remember exactly where it is, but do a search and you'll find it.
so what should I do??
Ok, now that I have some understanding of the whole thing, what do you guyys recomend??? Should I sell the bar, and just leave it be?? I do have Neuspeed Springs, and KYB struts, so I am not putting this on a stock suspension. Or should I purchase a front sway bar to balance it out? Kommon_sense..thanks for putting the effort in explaining this whole deal. I appreciate it greatly. I can say I have learned a few things in this thread, and thats exactly what I was looking for.
Keep the replys coming, and I am going to the suspension forum.........
Ok, now that I have some understanding of the whole thing, what do you guyys recomend??? Should I sell the bar, and just leave it be?? I do have Neuspeed Springs, and KYB struts, so I am not putting this on a stock suspension. Or should I purchase a front sway bar to balance it out? Kommon_sense..thanks for putting the effort in explaining this whole deal. I appreciate it greatly. I can say I have learned a few things in this thread, and thats exactly what I was looking for.
Keep the replys coming, and I am going to the suspension forum.........
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11,248 Posts
I am assuming that your tires are sticky enough to get the job done.Skunk2Integra said:
My first guess would be the skunk2 coilovers. If the spring rate is too high you won't get enough traction when you are on the street. On a track, you will probably be fine, but the street isn't as smooth/sticky as a track.
Another option would be to soften up the dampening in your front shocks. That would allow for a little more weight transfer to keep it planted.
Yet another option would be to raise your ride height a little bit. That will also allow for a little more weight transfer.
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Re: so what should I do??
If I were you, I would make sure that the tires are ok. If you have the KYB AGX's, I would set the rears to full soft, and stiffen up the front a lil bit.
Next I would get a front sway bar, and add a rear down the road, but keep the rear small.
You may also want to experiment with some negative camber and a lil more toe-in in the rear. More toe-in will keep the rear end stable at speed in the straights, but you will lose a little speed while cornering. No biggie... More negative camber will allow the tires to roll a lil more and stay planted in the corners. Of course you sacrifice a little tire wear, but if you rotate often enough, it should be negligible. Most decent alignment shops will show you a print-out before they do the alignment, and you can tell them what you want your settings to be.
No prob... glad to be of service.OshkyCiv said:Ok, now that I have some understanding of the whole thing, what do you guyys recomend??? Should I sell the bar, and just leave it be?? I do have Neuspeed Springs, and KYB struts, so I am not putting this on a stock suspension. Or should I purchase a front sway bar to balance it out? Kommon_sense..thanks for putting the effort in explaining this whole deal. I appreciate it greatly. I can say I have learned a few things in this thread, and thats exactly what I was looking for.
Keep the replys coming, and I am going to the suspension forum.........
If I were you, I would make sure that the tires are ok. If you have the KYB AGX's, I would set the rears to full soft, and stiffen up the front a lil bit.
Next I would get a front sway bar, and add a rear down the road, but keep the rear small.
You may also want to experiment with some negative camber and a lil more toe-in in the rear. More toe-in will keep the rear end stable at speed in the straights, but you will lose a little speed while cornering. No biggie... More negative camber will allow the tires to roll a lil more and stay planted in the corners. Of course you sacrifice a little tire wear, but if you rotate often enough, it should be negligible. Most decent alignment shops will show you a print-out before they do the alignment, and you can tell them what you want your settings to be.
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