Honda and Acura Car Forums banner

1 - 20 of 30 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,368 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I'm way beyond tired of adding $5 qts of mobil-1 all the time, or driving my car with not enough oil in it. I know for a fact that I wouldn't consume even remotely close to the amount I do now if I were running regular instead of synthetic. Has anyone switched back and had any problems? I know it's not good to switch between types of oils, but my engine theory professor claims it's ok to switch as long as you aren't going back and forth. I also hear that some rubber seals can go bad if you've been running synthetic for a while and then switch to regular. Has anyone switched from synthetic back to regular and had any problems? Does anybody (that has experience in the matter, or knows what they are talking about) have any advice on this?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
896 Posts
I've been running synthetic for bout 70k miles, no probs what so ever so i dunno.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21,276 Posts
hey ben i was runnnig mobil 1 5w 30 synthetic on my car for a while, i switched over to regular mobil oil and i havent had any problems yet. I know what you mean by oil consumption. I havent even had to add oil between oil changes. :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
661 Posts
i've used regular oil ever since i've had my car (1.5 yrs), about a month ago i looked through some of the old recipts the previous owner had in the glove compartment and it looks like he used synthetic when he owned it...long story short, i havent had any problems, hardly any consumption
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,146 Posts
wutangben said:
I'm way beyond tired of adding $5 qts of mobil-1 all the time, or driving my car with not enough oil in it. I know for a fact that I wouldn't consume even remotely close to the amount I do now if I were running regular instead of synthetic. Has anyone switched back and had any problems? I know it's not good to switch between types of oils, but my engine theory professor claims it's ok to switch as long as you aren't going back and forth. I also hear that some rubber seals can go bad if you've been running synthetic for a while and then switch to regular. Has anyone switched from synthetic back to regular and had any problems? Does anybody (that has experience in the matter, or knows what they are talking about) have any advice on this?

no problems fuck moble 1,, i went from 10w30 moble 1 with the add in once everyother week to 5w30 moble clean drive a.k.a regualr oil $1.15 each with no problems and seems like less chaseing leaks. when i put moble 1 in my car i seen no difference in performance or gas mileage. its not good to go back in forth back and forth thoe. but ive had no problems and im loving the $1.15 and im not filling it half as much
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,368 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
awesome. i think i'm gonna start an 'anti-synthetic' club for those of us who are sick of consuming oil ;) and i do think i'm gonna make the switch. i'll let you guys know. any other comments are welcome.

peace
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
84 Posts
i was wondering, how does using synthetic make you consume oil faster? from all of the internal parts being more lubricated? or what. i've been using mobil 1 for about 23k on my h23 now with no problem.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21,276 Posts
synthetic oil is much thinner than regular oil. Especially with older cars. It's so thin that it seeps (spelling???) through the gaskets. Thus making you have to fill her up every now and then.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
652 Posts
That's ritght I fille her up every other week...... I use AMSOIL and it's 6.99 for a qt. here in Chicago, I am switching back too LOLZZ

2 questions:
1. Is there any chance that a synthetic oil would slip thru your picton rings?
2. What would be the best regular oil to use?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,368 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
94bpcivic said:
i was wondering, how does using synthetic make you consume oil faster? from all of the internal parts being more lubricated? or what. i've been using mobil 1 for about 23k on my h23 now with no problem.
i think it's a vtec thing.

there's great oil info at

www.bobistheoilguy.com
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,134 Posts
i'll post up a great article later
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,146 Posts
good regular oils, most honda dealerships use castorl GTX 5w30 which i like or 10w30

or theres moble clean drive which is a good dertergent oil.

Id rather have regular oil and change it every 2k or 3k then synth and change the sametime or go longer on.

bobs site is good and the oil real beef hes got is oil additives
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,134 Posts
FAQ this bitch:
Written by Gerhard on PO

Gerhard’s Synthetic Oil Primer and Filter recommendation for New Owners

There are a few things that I gloss over...but it's still mostly correct...

What is the difference between synthetic and conventional motor oils?

Synthetic:

Synthetic lubricants are actually wonders of modern chemistry.

With synthetic motor oil special chemical reactions are completed to form a completely new molecule with the special properties that were intended for the new chemical.

These new substances that are created area called Group IV and Group V basestocks. [Basestocks are the oil substances that make up the base of the product your are purchasing. Motor oils are a combination of basestock(s) and additives.]

Group IV basestocks are made of a molecule type called polyalphaolefins (PAO).

Group V basestocks are made of a molecule type called esters.

Many synthetic oil manufacturers will use combinations of Group IV & V basestocks to create the lubricant they wish to market.

Conventional

Conventional motor oils are the classic oils distilled from petroleum or “dead dinosaurs” (aka “dino” for short).

The reason conventional oils are distilled is because petroleum is actually more of an alphabet soup of chemicals. As an example, this may mean that oil companies need to remove chemicals A-W from the soup and keep chemicals X,Y, and Z.

Once the parts of the petroleum the oil company seeks are distilled, the oil is then refined using two processes called hydrotreating and hydrocracking to get it into the purest form.

Hydrotreating is a process that adds organic chemicals to treat the petroleum based oils and create the chemical properties the refinery seeks.

Hydrocracking is the process of actually breaking a certain hydrocarbons (oil) involved in the petroleum products to produce a cleaner lubricant.

Conventional basestock motor oils comprise Groups I, II, and III. Most of the dino oils you buy off the shelf are Group III that has at the very least been hydrocracked.

Additives

In the cases of both synthetic lubricants and conventional lubricants all brands are generally distinguished by the additives they put in the oils. In general, synthetic lubricants have a higher quality additive package than most conventional lubricants.

What do the additives do?

- Prevent foaming.
- Prevent build up of sludge, gums, and varnishes.
- Neutralize acids and organic acids formed as by-products of combustion.
- Prevent engine seizing during high temperatures (within reason).

Oil without a good additive package is worthless. Castrol Syntec is technically worse oil than Castrol GTX by this logic, as an example.

The great advertising false hood: Conventional lubricants that market themselves as synthetics!

Now that you know a little bit about base stocks and refining of motor oils, we should cover how oil is marketed in the United States.

Some years ago Mobil had a problem with Castrol marketing their Syntec product as synthetic lubricant…

Most companies have one of the larger oil companies manufacture the basestocks for them. They then blend the additives into the final product themselves (or pay someone to do it).

This was the case with Castrol Syntec. They had someone making a Group IV basestock for them, but suddenly found that it was expensive to compete in the synthetic oil market. Some really smart individual realized that the processes of Hydrotreating and Hydrocracking could be considered synthesizing a new product not found in petroleum natively and they could call Group III basestock (conventional) oil a “synthetic” product.

Mobil took Castrol to court and lost! So now anyone who wishes to call their product synthetic just needs to make sure they use a hydrocracked Group III basestock!

But you and I both know that it’s effectively fraud.

I know of two products that do this: Castrol Syntec and B&M Synthetic Trick Shift.

At some point, it’s believed that Mobil 1 started using Group III basestock as the carrier for their additive package. The court case enabled them to claim that their Group IV/V Mobil 1 oil is a fully synthetic product even with the Group III oil being slipped in via the additive package. (Despite continued attempts I’ve never been able to get a direct answer to this from Mobil 1. They always word around it…)

Why use synthetic oil?

Synthetic oils ARE superior products. The adage that “You get what you pay for!” is actually true in this case.

Most people don’t know why synthetic oils are really better. Let’s list the reasons and why:

- Synthetic oils have a lower coefficient of friction than conventional motor oils. What this means is that they are slippier that normal motor oils. If I were to put sand in the crankcase of my engine the resulting frictions would completely destroy the engine in a matter of minutes. However, the difference between synthetic and conventional oils is no as pronounced. That does not mean their isn’t a serious difference to your engine over the life of the vehicle. Engines that are broken down after using synthetic oils tend to show significantly less wear than the same model engines that have used conventional oils.

- Synthetic oils have better additive packages. I’ve already covered this above.

- Synthetic oils are more chemically stable. Sythetic oils do not break down due to the extremes in temperature found in automotive use.

- Synthetic oils burn less (aka are less volatile). This is almost the same as that last statement, but translates into the fact the synthetic do not tend to thicken or condense with use over time. This means they will leave less residue on your engine parts.

- Synthetic oils have better film strengths. This means that they adhere to the surfaces of engine parts better than conventional motor oils. They also don’t shear off of surfaces as easily. This translate to much better lubrication.

Ok, time for me to rant:

Most people seem to think that they should baby their Prelude and put really good synthetic oil in it. However, they also seem to think that they should change their oil every 3000 miles. This is completely and totally wrong!

Here is why:

Oil companies, filter manufacturers, and your local Honda dealers have created this myth that you are better off changing your motor oil every 3000 miles.

It might have been true that this was the best practice for anyone using conventional motor oil until about 1990. However, today, with the higher technology that has been placed at the disposal of the oil manufacturers, there is no scientific reason to change your oil outside of the OEM specifications.

What are the OEM spec's for changing the oil in a H22A based Honda Prelude? Answer: 7500 miles

This means that Honda has looked at the lowest common denominator [aka c-r-a-p-p-i-e-s-t oil manufacturer] and determined that even with the worst oil on the market you are safe at changing the oil every 7500 miles.

I know, I know, you're probably thinking: "But Gerhard, these are the same rat-bastards that gave us the Sequential Sportshift Automatic Transmission...?"

While that may be true but, the H22A engine used in the 4th and 5th gens are known to be quite reliable even when poorly maintained. There are plenty of them that are on the road with well over 100000 miles and no signs of problems what so ever.

The reality is that all your really need to keep your Prelude running well is to get a good oil filter and use a decent synthetic oil.

What are the decent synthetic oils to use in the 4th and 5th Gen Preludes?

The answer is that there are many good synthetic oils on the market:

- Mobil 1
- AMSOIL
- RedLine
- Royal Purple
- Valvoline
- The German version of Castrol Syntec [It must say “Made in Germany” on the rear label.]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,134 Posts
Part 2
What are some of the differences between the different brands of synthetic oils?

Well, Mobil 1 is reputed to have a certain percent of conventional oil in it as a result of the additives being dissolved into group III basestock. It’s hard to really know how true this is, but the indications are that Mobil 1 is more volatile than RedLine or Amsoil by about 5%. (That means it burns more easily, and that is consistant with there being dino oil in it.)

Then there is Castrol Syntec aka “the c-r-a-p-p-i-e-s-t supposedly synthetic oil on the planet!” Castrol’s USA made version of Syntec is actually reputed to be made entirely out of group III basestock. Oil analysis from various sources show that this stuff doesn’t even last as well as Castrol GTX! There is hope if you are a lover of this brand: It turns out that there is also a German produced version of this oil. Lab tests indicate that it’s actually a really good oil. If the back label on the Castrol Syntec bottle says “Made in Germany,” then you can use this oil.

What synthetic oil do I use in my 4th or 5th Gen Prelude if I burn oil?

Well, my first question is: How much oil do you burn??

If the answer is 3-4 quarts every 7500 miles, then you’ve pretty much got the same H22A engine that the rest of us do and it’s not a big deal.

If you are burning less than that: Kudos for you! (You bastard…)

If you are burning MORE than 4 qts every 7500 miles, you need to check the compression of your cylinders and look for leaks! You may have something wrong with your engine!

Basically, if your car burns very little oil then you should use 5w30 in your Prelude. Any of the major brands will work well with some being slightly better than others.

The real difference comes with high heat and track based usage. If you are not changing you oil every race, then I’d use anything but Mobil 1 or Syntec. Mobil 1 is not reputed to last as well during high heat and continuous racing environments. (Anyone want to send a sample to Blackstone Labs or Oil Analysers after 8 hours of good hot track useage? Email me!)

If you do burn oil, then I’d use either 0w40 or 10w40 oil in your 4th or 5th Gen!

Oil testing has determined that AMSOIL 10w40 oil with a good filter will last for 10000 miles with only a filter change at 5000 miles.

Honestly, I’d just get a good filter, put AMSOIL ASL 10w40 in my car, and change the oil every 7500 miles. You will notice your oil consumption drop without an effect on your gas mileage. AMSOIL is a good product.

Mobil 1 0w40 oil is also a decent choice if you burn oil and would like to slow it down. It will also last to 7500 miles without any difficulty.

Now for the answers to the typical questions I get after my previous statements.

- Synthetic oils tend to pump to -40 degrees F. (Most flow to about -50F.)

- AMSOIL 10W40 pumps at the same exactly temp that Mobil 1 5w30 does: -54F

- The OEM drain interval is 7500 for the 4th and 5th gens. Synthetic oils tend to wear significantly better than conventional oils. This means that the drain intervals can be significantly extended if you want. However, 7500 miles is a fine interval and the dash board will indicate when to change the oil.

- Changing you oil at 7500 miles has no impact on the life of your car, but it’s a lot better for your wallet and the environment.

- In Europe 0w40 oil is listed as acceptable for the 5th gen. This means that 40w is not a problem for the H22A series engine.

- Mobil 1 is about 5% more volatile than AMSOIL or RedLine (aka it burns more easily). This is part of the reason that you will burn less oil if you use AMSOIL or RedLine.

- Oil analysis shows no difference between 3000 and 7500 mile drain intervals in an H22A when a good oil filter is used.

- Dealers have a vested interest in telling people to change their oil every 3000 miles. Honda has not said this! It’s all about money.

- Most H22A Preludes burn about 1 qt of oil ever 3000 miles.

- Synthetic lubricants have a lower coefficient of friction than conventional motor oils which results in better gas mileage and slightly increased horse power.

What oil filters should I use?

The construction of an oil filter only tells part of the story. That being said there are a bunch of poorly manufactured filters out there that you should stay away from. The top of the crappy filter list are:

- STP
- Bosch
- WalMart SuperTech

I’m only talking about the OEM sized versions of these brands. These 3 filters are exactly the same. They have a substandard anti-drain back valve and a sub-standard by-pass valve. Testing of used variants of these filters have seen the anti-drainback valve fail in as little as 2000 miles of use, and the by-pass valves seem to either work all the time or not at all. DO NOT USE THESE FILTERS.

Use the OEM sized AMSOIL, Mobil 1, K&N, Fram x2, AC Delco, Tokyo-Roki, Union Sangyo, Hastings, or Wix filters. These brands are by far the best.

The actually brand names version is the best idea when it comes to companies like Hastings or Wix that also make filters for other companies. The media used in their non-branded versions tend to no be quite as good.

The Fram x2 is the only heavy duty constructed Fram oil filter. It does use the exact same by-pass valve as the OEM USA/Canada Honda filter. Some folks do not like this design but I’ve got to tell you that it’s a very heavy duty design in the case of the x2 filters. (I’ll have lab tests in soon to tell us just how well the x2 filters.)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,146 Posts
I knew it your a AMSOIL guy or a seller of it. All AMSOIL guys are like that. nothing personal my neighbor is a dealer and hes allways trying to get me to change. My mom has had a nissan senta thats has over 200k on orignal motor and has used castrol GTX.

I did not have a problem with loosing alot of oil until i went from useing castrol GTX to moble 1. when i went back to clean drive my problem has been as bad. Next oil change i will be back to castrol GTX.

Honda dealerships in the orlando area all use castrol GTX and one of the classic honda now has AMSOIL and i asked the service tech if its worth it and he said for you no. I also asked some friend that are mechanics at work what they used and they told me GTX.

Id use any reg oil even the moble lube place told me that theres no reasion for me to use moble 1. the only people trying to make me use synthetic oil are AMSOIL guys
 
1 - 20 of 30 Posts
Top