Just had a few questions, I was reading over the turbo info and basically learned that turboing an h22 is possible, but not always practical. There was a lot of talk about buliding up the bottom end, and going naturally aspired. What all would this envolve, and is building up the bottom end possible without doing major engine mods. What benefits does turbo bring that Naturally aspired wouldn't and vice versa? Also, I am looking for a more Auto-x, track set-up, what route would you guys recomend I take. Thanks for helping out a noob!
Turbo vs. N/A on an h22
1 - 20 of 60 Posts
ok heres the run down:
first the turbo side.
you can run a turbo safely on an h22....the best kit on the market for a h22 is the greddy turbo kit...it was designed for the stock motor. But again, it needs to be tuned. The emanage will be good for a bit but if you plan on going any higher boost it needs to be tuned.
If you want to build your motor for turbo:
You MUST get new sleeves put in, ie: golden eagle sleeves, in order to run forged pistons. If your gonna run forged pistons you might as well get forged rods. However....building the bottom end is very pricey. Just the sleeves and labor can cost around 1200 dollars (that does not include anything else...just the new sleeves and labor). Once you build your bottom end (preferably with lower compression pistons), it is a MUST to get hondata (piggy back system that runs off your stock ecu) or AEM ems (this is a completely new ecu that runs standalone...you will not need your stock ecu..it completely replaces it). AEM ems is probably one of the best tuning devices you could ever buy for your car. Unless you are running an all out balls to the wall car, i dont see any need to do any work to the head. Now with your bottom end built you can safely run more boost and upgrade your turbo at any time. Oh yeah, you will also need a high performance clutch in order to handle the power.
Now for the NA side:
First things first is to get I/H/E and the basic bolt ons before breaking into the motor. A build motor with no intake and exhaust upgrades will greatly decrease the performance of a built motor. One of the greatest bolt on's you can do for your car is a good header. SMSP, Hytech, Kteller, Mugen, DTR are just a few who make high hp application headers. (but also run from 700-1200 dollars). Once you get to the point to where you want to build your NA motor. You have to consider your goals for you build.....do you want a streetable motor....or a race motor.
I consider a street build motor anything under 12:0 compression. Any higher compression than that and its not very safe to run pump gas. Once you figured out what kinda build you want you have to think about what cam profile you want.....there are plenty of cams to choose from (crower, skunk2, rocket motorsports, JUN) all with different profiles except for the JUN which is a "stage 3" cam profile. Once you have your motor built to the specs you want (depending on how long the build last) you need to buy a tuning source....just like turbo NA motors have to be tuned in order to run at top notch on the street. Hondata, AEM ems would be my choices......you cannot run hondata on an OBD II ecu which is any car built from 1996 - present. And like turbo you will need to buy a clutch to handle this higher hp. One of the last things you could possibly do to an NA motor is Individual throttle bodies. They offer immediate throttle response and are meant to make power in the high rpms.
if i missed anything...someone please add to it......i typed so much i cant remember all i typed.... :hehe
hope this helps.
edit:
Fully built tuned NA h22 motors vary in power from around 220 whp - 270 whp depending on your build.
Turbo motors can produce almost an unlimited amount of power yet it may not last long at 700 whp. They vary from ~250whp - 700whp again depending on the build.
first the turbo side.
you can run a turbo safely on an h22....the best kit on the market for a h22 is the greddy turbo kit...it was designed for the stock motor. But again, it needs to be tuned. The emanage will be good for a bit but if you plan on going any higher boost it needs to be tuned.
If you want to build your motor for turbo:
You MUST get new sleeves put in, ie: golden eagle sleeves, in order to run forged pistons. If your gonna run forged pistons you might as well get forged rods. However....building the bottom end is very pricey. Just the sleeves and labor can cost around 1200 dollars (that does not include anything else...just the new sleeves and labor). Once you build your bottom end (preferably with lower compression pistons), it is a MUST to get hondata (piggy back system that runs off your stock ecu) or AEM ems (this is a completely new ecu that runs standalone...you will not need your stock ecu..it completely replaces it). AEM ems is probably one of the best tuning devices you could ever buy for your car. Unless you are running an all out balls to the wall car, i dont see any need to do any work to the head. Now with your bottom end built you can safely run more boost and upgrade your turbo at any time. Oh yeah, you will also need a high performance clutch in order to handle the power.
Now for the NA side:
First things first is to get I/H/E and the basic bolt ons before breaking into the motor. A build motor with no intake and exhaust upgrades will greatly decrease the performance of a built motor. One of the greatest bolt on's you can do for your car is a good header. SMSP, Hytech, Kteller, Mugen, DTR are just a few who make high hp application headers. (but also run from 700-1200 dollars). Once you get to the point to where you want to build your NA motor. You have to consider your goals for you build.....do you want a streetable motor....or a race motor.
I consider a street build motor anything under 12:0 compression. Any higher compression than that and its not very safe to run pump gas. Once you figured out what kinda build you want you have to think about what cam profile you want.....there are plenty of cams to choose from (crower, skunk2, rocket motorsports, JUN) all with different profiles except for the JUN which is a "stage 3" cam profile. Once you have your motor built to the specs you want (depending on how long the build last) you need to buy a tuning source....just like turbo NA motors have to be tuned in order to run at top notch on the street. Hondata, AEM ems would be my choices......you cannot run hondata on an OBD II ecu which is any car built from 1996 - present. And like turbo you will need to buy a clutch to handle this higher hp. One of the last things you could possibly do to an NA motor is Individual throttle bodies. They offer immediate throttle response and are meant to make power in the high rpms.
if i missed anything...someone please add to it......i typed so much i cant remember all i typed.... :hehe
hope this helps.
edit:
Fully built tuned NA h22 motors vary in power from around 220 whp - 270 whp depending on your build.
Turbo motors can produce almost an unlimited amount of power yet it may not last long at 700 whp. They vary from ~250whp - 700whp again depending on the build.
Joined
·
12,727 Posts
I would rather go with a turbo car from factory then mod the lude for a turbo....or buy a different car if you want to do the whole N/A build on a prelude....its just too damn expensive for such little gain.
I might be building a rx7 soon....I'll keep everyone updated in the next couple of yrs
I might be building a rx7 soon....I'll keep everyone updated in the next couple of yrs
Joined
·
1,668 Posts
nice post, but i'd just like to clarify that the prelude greddy kit doesnt come with emanage. it comes with a pretuned "blue box". its a good and safe tune for the car. its programmed to run a little rich, but thats good for added safety. whats nice about this is that you just tap it into your ecu as you would a vafc and your tuned. ofcourse a system such as aem ems or hondata would give better results, but the blue box is dependable unlike common fmu's.98Vtec said:
So that blue box is already pretuned and you really dont need to adjust anything right? On a stock motor, how much more hp would that "safe" greddy turbo kit add? And if installed properly, how much would it degrade the lifespan of that stock motor?
Guess Im ready for a little more power and Im exploring the less expensive options for a high milage daily driver and keeping the ATTS working....
greddy turbo kit
jrsc kit
zex 50 shot dry kit
Guess Im ready for a little more power and Im exploring the less expensive options for a high milage daily driver and keeping the ATTS working....
greddy turbo kit
jrsc kit
zex 50 shot dry kit
Joined
·
376 Posts
i would also look into a fmax kit, i feel that they are a very good kit....
try www.turbo-kit.com
as far as the jrsc, i would look into intake temps, with the jrsc they can get pretty high and i have read about the jrsc breaking down and not lasting that long, this is all hear-say cause i have not seen one first hand... just something for you to look into...
i have seen the fmax kit first hand was very impressed.....
if you are looking into building your lude for personal reasons then go ahead, if you want to be the fastest on the road then you have already lost the battle... this is something i have learned over the years with my prelude...
no to rag on the lude, i love it, its a very stylish car, but with the other options out there in the car world today it make much more sense choosing another project car...
i have found that there is very few options of cars that i would build under 30,000 that could make me as happy as my lude has... some examples are the 350z, wrx, c5, c6, m3, just to name a few....
try www.turbo-kit.com
as far as the jrsc, i would look into intake temps, with the jrsc they can get pretty high and i have read about the jrsc breaking down and not lasting that long, this is all hear-say cause i have not seen one first hand... just something for you to look into...
i have seen the fmax kit first hand was very impressed.....
if you are looking into building your lude for personal reasons then go ahead, if you want to be the fastest on the road then you have already lost the battle... this is something i have learned over the years with my prelude...
no to rag on the lude, i love it, its a very stylish car, but with the other options out there in the car world today it make much more sense choosing another project car...
i have found that there is very few options of cars that i would build under 30,000 that could make me as happy as my lude has... some examples are the 350z, wrx, c5, c6, m3, just to name a few....
Ive heard good and bad things about most turbo, nos, SC kits out there. Guess it also depends on the conditon of the engine and how hard it was driven with these mods.
I bought my lude used and its been the best bang for the buck and it can still outhandle most things on the road. I realize that the lude is gonna be expensive to make fast (and reliable). I guess I just dont wanna be embarassed by some spoiled highschool punk in a cobalt ss or some soccer mom in an v6 altima.... :fear
I bought my lude used and its been the best bang for the buck and it can still outhandle most things on the road. I realize that the lude is gonna be expensive to make fast (and reliable). I guess I just dont wanna be embarassed by some spoiled highschool punk in a cobalt ss or some soccer mom in an v6 altima.... :fear
Joined
·
1,668 Posts
right, you wire it in and thats it. you dont adjust anything. on a completely stock motor, stock exhaust, and 7 psi you'll make about 220whp. i dont know how much it will degrade the lifespan of the motor, but i know a couple people who have ran the kit for a couple years with no problems. one of them even ran it at 12psi for several months tuning with emanage, and again no problems.phrancis said:
Joined
·
376 Posts
really with the fmax kit??? were they running at the kits "stock" boost level? i am surpised to hear this... if this is true i will never boost my lude, i have been thinking about buying another fmax kit for my lude (i had to sell the first one cuase of money issues...) but if this kits blow in the h22 then its a no go for me...98Vtec said:
to me its not worth building the bottom end for boost on my lude... the cost just isnt worth it... after what i would pay for the built engine and the turbo kit and then tuning... i could buy another project car and go beyond what i could do with my lude....
if this is true then this might be the final nail im my ludes far sale sign...
1 - 20 of 60 Posts
Join the discussion
