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Discussion Starter #1
Seriously I know that quality is obvisously a factor but wont they all increase rigidity and reduce chassis flex? Ebay has immitations like this :

and a mugen one is simular and nearly 10 times the cost. Will you really feel the diff? Sorry if its a dumb Q i just really don't know.
 

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these types of topics have been debated over and over in the past....i think as long as the two bars are identical copies of one another..then i would assume they would have the same amount of impact on chassis flex regardless of what kinds of material used whether it be titanium,steel, etc....the only noticable difference is the craftsmanship on the strut...the welding patters may not be as good as the one on the Mugen's...but I would not worry about that too much
 

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usually the less amount of moving parts will be the most rigid.

AKA Neuspeed strut bars do well. Anything that has pivot points won't do as well.
 

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the real mugen bar doesn't have that pivot point....it's just one piece

personally it's not worth the 300-400 or whatever it costs for that thing lol

now my benen bar on the other hand..now THAT'S BEEFY





:)
 

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Discussion Starter #5
IntegraXTR said:
the real mugen bar doesn't have that pivot point....it's just one piece

personally it's not worth the 300-400 or whatever it costs for that thing lol

now my benen bar on the other hand..now THAT'S BEEFY





:)
Damn Alex that is sweet, i've been looking for a carbing strut bar simular to your design, where'd you find it? How much?
 

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Hooked_on4 said:
Seriously I know that quality is obvisously a factor but wont they all increase rigidity and reduce chassis flex? Ebay has immitations like this :

and a mugen one is simular and nearly 10 times the cost. Will you really feel the diff? Sorry if its a dumb Q i just really don't know.
one of the big differences is quality and material. The $40 ebay bar most likely isn't made from the same grade of aluminum that the mugen bar is made from. welds may not be of the same quality if it is welded at all. fitment might not be as good and bar may bend over time. bottom line is that you get what you pay for.

with that said, I think that the mugen bar is overpriced, but you are wasting money w/ebay bars.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Hooked_on4 said:
Damn Alex that is sweet, i've been looking for a carbing strut bar simular to your design, where'd you find it? How much?
Nevermind that, I found one @ tornactive, not bad price for that :D and thanx 4 all the info guys, I was thinkin bout just buyin a cheapy till I buy a good one but I'll just hold off
 

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they all work the same, i dont think you need to spend 10x the money for a brand name bar unless it is for a car show or something. but if you just want one that works get the one off of ebay, i got a set of OBX strut bars for $89 shipped for all 3; upper front, lower back, and upper back, it works fine. i know people say OBX make crappy product but i couldnt tell the difference between my OBX n my cuzin neuspeed....besides the price
 

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if you are gonna buy a cheap bar it's a waste of money...I could grab a DC bar and bend it with one hand.....mugen....I can bust the pivot with one could pop....i.e....a huge pot hole at 90mph.

Quality bars like cusco and mugen can't be beat but they are grip.

Bennin is the where's it at..


But dollar for dollar neuspeed can not be beat. You can stand on one if you want. I've done it...no bend...and I weigh over 220 pounds.

Things to stay away from.... Pivots. Anodized strut bars. Thinks with needless dress up items..such as holes.

Easy ways to tell a real mugen bar....no pivot first...and look at the welds...mugen is all about stength...they don't cover their welds or polish their bars...just the gorgious look of industrial strength quality.

My favorites and top recommendations.

Mugen
Bennin
Spoon
Neuspeed

to stay away from tops.
DC
EBay anything....especially mugen knocks
Ractive
arospeed.
Matrix

Ones I also don't really like
Greddy
Tannabe
sparco

others that are o.k.
Comptech
Skunk
Cusco
Sprint (neuspeed knock off)


If it says...syle...it's a fake...such as. New Mugen STYLE strut bar...FAKE. Type R style....it's a fake.
 

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AutoCivic said:
they all work the same, i dont think you need to spend 10x the money for a brand name bar unless it is for a car show or something. but if you just want one that works get the one off of ebay, i got a set of OBX strut bars for $89 shipped for all 3; upper front, lower back, and upper back, it works fine. i know people say OBX make crappy product but i couldnt tell the difference between my OBX n my cuzin neuspeed....besides the price
Do you have a big body kit....stock wheels in the front and 17's in the back...never been to the track?

That is some of the worst advice you could ever give. OBX sucks...forgot to put them on my band list...massive...mASSive oversite.

Don't listen to this guy.


All bars are not the same...if they were you'd see obx and matrix on cars at the track...that will never happen.

Strut bars are designed to strenghten cars where weak. When a car hits a turn the suspension takes up what it can then the rest goes into your body....for example my civic..any civic...very week body especially in the front....the whole stinkin car bends in a high speed turn or sharp turn....so you put strut bars in to reinforce your frame and keep the car from leaning..hence loosing traction.

Bars like OBX, DC, Matrix...etc...they are cheap because they are for looks and looks only. They are soft and do nothing to help your handling.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
OneManArmy said:
Do you have a big body kit....stock wheels in the front and 17's in the back...never been to the track?

That is some of the worst advice you could ever give. OBX sucks...forgot to put them on my band list...massive...mASSive oversite.

Don't listen to this guy.


All bars are not the same...if they were you'd see obx and matrix on cars at the track...that will never happen.

Strut bars are designed to strenghten cars where weak. When a car hits a turn the suspension takes up what it can then the rest goes into your body....for example my civic..any civic...very week body especially in the front....the whole stinkin car bends in a high speed turn or sharp turn....so you put strut bars in to reinforce your frame and keep the car from leaning..hence loosing traction.

Bars like OBX, DC, Matrix...etc...they are cheap because they are for looks and looks only. They are soft and do nothing to help your handling.
Thanx 4 the input, Im gonna go w/a 3 pnt strut bar like benen or carbing,
 

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AutoCivic said:
they all work the same, i dont think you need to spend 10x the money for a brand name bar unless it is for a car show or something. but if you just want one that works get the one off of ebay, i got a set of OBX strut bars for $89 shipped for all 3; upper front, lower back, and upper back, it works fine. i know people say OBX make crappy product but i couldnt tell the difference between my OBX n my cuzin neuspeed....besides the price
They don't all work the same. The type of metal and fasteners used makes all the difference. If you are going to use a cheap bar then don't even bother wasting your money. Is the $300 mugen bar better than a $100 neuspeed or skunk2 bar... Most likely not, but they are all better than the $29.95 e-bay bar that people on this site seem to be so fond of.
 

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Hooked_on4 said:
Thanx 4 the input, Im gonna go w/a 3 pnt strut bar like benen or carbing,
3-pt bars are not allowed in some auto-x. just making you aware in case you are interested in auto-x. Also, if you are not interested in auto-x or roadracing, then the benen or carbing is surely overkill. Get a neuspeed and call it a day.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
kommon_sense said:
3-pt bars are not allowed in some auto-x. just making you aware in case you are interested in auto-x. Also, if you are not interested in auto-x or roadracing, then the benen or carbing is surely overkill. Get a neuspeed and call it a day.
Really? Man I need to look into that, im in STS class now, that'll probably bump me up huh? Or you're saying they aren't allowed @ all? Not even in Street Modified? I need to find the rule book and find out, thanx 4 pointing that out Kommon
 

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I am not a fan of 3 point braces, because I don't like the idea that the firewall will be subjected to structural loads...

I honestly think that a strut brace is basically just for looks. For normal driving, they are pretty much useless. For the track, however, you might feel some difference.

The thing to keep in mind, is that curved braces are really useless, seeing as it will just flex. Look at structural bracing on buildings - no curves. Also, braces which have the bar attached via raised mounts would be flexy too.

Regarding the knock-off braces, some are actually very good quality & others are complete rubbish. I would rather use cotton as a brace than use some of the crap I have seen (probably would be stronger too). Just like the fake MRP chain guide system for mountain bikes - the fake one is just as good as the genuine MRP, but costs hundreds of dollars less.

If you would like my advice, buy an Honda SiR steel front brace, for the simple fact that steel is stronger than aluminium.
 

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yup...if you really wanna feel a difference without having to go w/ the 3pt struts from benen,carbing,etc etc or even going with a rollcage, get upgraded front and rear sways with upgraded endlinks....
 

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mls said:
I am not a fan of 3 point braces, because I don't like the idea that the firewall will be subjected to structural loads...
The firewall is designed to keep the engine from landing in your lap in case of an accident. It is a major structural component in the car. I'm sure that it will be ok with a 3-pt bar. However I don't particularly like the way that some 3-pt bars attach to the firewall, so I don't think that they do much for you.

I honestly think that a strut brace is basically just for looks. For normal driving, they are pretty much useless. For the track, however, you might feel some difference.
I have to disagree with you hear. I am basically a daily driver and the strut bar made a world of difference in cornering and even straight line stability in my car. However I had already upgraded my suspension and had a much stiffer/firmer setup than stock. If I was still on stock suspension, then I don't think that the strut bar would have done a thing.


The thing to keep in mind, is that curved braces are really useless, seeing as it will just flex. Look at structural bracing on buildings - no curves. Also, braces which have the bar attached via raised mounts would be flexy too.
No, a curved bar will not flex if it is made from quality material. If the bar is strong enough to withstand the forces exerted on it, then it will not bend, whether it is straight, curved, or shaped like a crazy straw. This is why you buy a quality bar such as mugen, skunk2, neuspeed, etc. You get something made from T6-6061 or T6-7071 and you will be set. Flex happens when the bar isn't strong enough to withstand the load. This is why you buy a quality bar and not an e-bay bar.

Regarding the knock-off braces, some are actually very good quality & others are complete rubbish. I would rather use cotton as a brace than use some of the crap I have seen (probably would be stronger too). Just like the fake MRP chain guide system for mountain bikes - the fake one is just as good as the genuine MRP, but costs hundreds of dollars less.
Fake isn't so much the issue. The mugen bar is nearly $300, while other bars like neuspeed and skunk2 are around $100. If they bar is made from quality components then you are ok.

If you would like my advice, buy an Honda SiR steel front brace, for the simple fact that steel is stronger than aluminium.
standard steel is not stronger than all forms of aluminum. Ever dealt with T6-6061 or T6-7071 aircraft grade aluminum? the standard si/sir bar is much better than these cheapo ebay bars, but there are significantly better aftermarket bars.
 

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OK, points taken, but I still disagree with you regarding the flex resistance of a curved bar section. Again, if curved really didn't flex & was strong, why are the strongest parts of a building reinforced with straight triangular sections? If you gusset the curved part (have a look at the Foes rear single arm for a sort-of-similar-example), have oval/box section material, or do something similar, then it won't flex much, but it will still flex (everything flexes to a certain degree). Take some medium sized (big/small enough so you can bend it) round section aluminium piping or similar & push on the ends. If you can compress the pipe & make it flex then you are a hero. Now, bend the pipe into a bow shape & compress the pipe from both ends. Hello flex city. I guess you could try it with a metal coathanger too, or even a plastic pen (heat it up & bend it like a bow).

Again, for normal driving, I still maintain they are useless. Even in cometition vehicles for racing, they incorporate the roll cage as the strut bracing. I think most people have the placebo effect when installing a strut brace. You can look at the rollcage also, as most of the tubing is straight. Look at a hardtail bike. Most use two triangles(except GT's crap triple triangle design), & you guessed it, straight tubing for flex resistance & strength.


The actual design of the car is the major playing factor. For example, the E36 M3 has something like double the torsional resistance of the regular E36 monocoque, & there is not a strut brace to be seen.

I do agree that some braces are good & work, but lots of them (even the expensive ones) are useless, especially for road use.
 

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simple... straight tubing doesn't have to be as strong as curved tubing to support the same load. my point was that quality bars made out of good metal are more than strong enough to support the loads exerted on the chassis while cornering. Also, most of the curved bars that I have seen are solid. My skunk2 bar is quite beefy.

Also, trust me, install a good strut bar on a street car with a modified suspension and you will notice improved handling. If you drive like miss daisy is in the back seat, then you are right, you won't not notice it much. However if you like a little aggressive or spirited driving, then you appreciate a quality strut bar. people claiming that the ebay bars are the same are definately experiencing the placebo effect. After I installed the skunk2 bar, car was smoother at speed, chassis didn't squeak/creek going over speedbumps, and car was more stable under hard cornering (i.e. tires smoking when you are done).

also, you are right, a strut bar isn't required for some chassis, if the chassis is stiff enough. However gotta remember that we live in econobox honda world. Look on any honda model from the Civic SI and up and they all come with a strut bar. The honda engineers are pretty smart people, they wouldn't have put one there if it were not beneficial.
 
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