[All_motor_b16a2]

So which of those two do you think i should get? And do any of you guys know how much hp gains i would get from the 2 properly tuned of course.

 

[All_motor_b16a2]

Anybody

 

[ProjectCivic]

I don't know much about the Jun, but you ever considered Skunk 2? I've heard the Skunk is just as good as the spec B Toda.

 

[CivicGSR]

Toda & Jun are probably the best 2 companys to get b16 parts from, but the guy at AKT Trading (toda importer) told me that for a while jun cams had a problm with shattering in the head, but he could have been just trying to sell me on his...

 

[1Greyteg]

Well, I just saw B's get tuned to 194 HP and 132 PF/TQ today in an ITR hybrid. So I am a fan of theirs now. I know that the Jun's are good as well but, don't have any experience with them yet.

A.

 

[5gencivic]

jun, toda, skunk2, crower, oem ctr/itr, spoon or crane, it doesn't matter which cams you get... just get them tuned for the love of god... if you don't get them tuned then you're gonna be one of the people who start yelling that they didn't get any power from their toda cams and waaaa waaaa waaaa!
heh ok had to get that out... if it were me and i were doing a b16 build up i'd go with skunk2 cams. rodger foo got 192 hp from a b16 with those, head work smsp header and a few other goodies... oh and TUNING! did i mention that you need that? heh peace...

 

[1Greyteg]

jun, toda, skunk2, crower, oem ctr/itr, spoon or crane, it doesn't matter which cams you get... just get them tuned for the love of god... if you don't get them tuned then you're gonna be one of the people who start yelling that they didn't get any power from their toda cams and waaaa waaaa waaaa!
heh ok had to get that out... if it were me and i were doing a b16 build up i'd go with skunk2 cams. rodger foo got 192 hp from a b16 with those, head work smsp header and a few other goodies... oh and TUNING! did i mention that you need that? heh peace...

Foo's Civic also had the SMSP catback and the Comptech Icebox, and the the ATS 4.929 FD and lighweight flywheel, just to name a few more of his goodies that enabled him to win at Laguna Seca.

Oh and Tuning IS the key with ANY mod!

Especially with CAMS...

 

[Savedsol]

You're not asking enough questions. What are you looking for max power or all over the powerband increase? What are you using them for: street, drag, track? If you want max power than Juns 3 and Toda C's are about the same and maybe even the new Skunk2 Stage 3's. Problem is if you want stock idle you HAVE to go Jun. Jun only modifies the VTEC lobe and not the low rpm lobe of the cam. Toda B and C cams have a HUGE low rpm lobe which will give you a stall at every stoplight type of idle problem. You can tune this out if you know how: dyno, VTEC/fuel controller, ecu, cam gears. But you'll get super crappy mileage. Whereas you can just buy Jun's ECU and drive away, more or less.

 

[1Greyteg]

You're not asking enough questions. What are you looking for max power or all over the powerband increase? What are you using them for: street, drag, track? If you want max power than Juns 3 and Toda C's are about the same and maybe even the new Skunk2 Stage 3's. Problem is if you want stock idle you HAVE to go Jun. Jun only modifies the VTEC lobe and not the low rpm lobe of the cam. Toda B and C cams have a HUGE low rpm lobe which will give you a stall at every stoplight type of idle problem. You can tune this out if you know how: dyno, VTEC/fuel controller, ecu, cam gears. But you'll get super crappy mileage. Whereas you can just buy Jun's ECU and drive away, more or less.

I'm not here to argue JUN, TODA or Skunk2's but,

You are completely wrong when stating the Toda B's will or have a crappy idle and will stall at stoplights, this is just untrue.

You are correct however when you state that TUNING is very important. You need good camgears, a FPR and a couple of hours on the dyno to tune 'em correctly and a whole day on the dyno tuning to get the max out of 'em. VAFC would be nice too and so would a remapped ECU, but what you need to start is the gears and FPR.

The mileage issue I'd think is Not a real issue when doing cams. If you are doing Hot Cams, then you are inhearantly trying to tune the most HP/TQ performance accross the board and caring little or less about economy and emissions. Bringing this to light with inexperienced tuners and newbies is important. But, lets be honest, if you want more power with either, N/A or FI, you will lose some mileage per gallon as a tradeoff.

A.

 

[Savedsol]

I disagree, LOOK at the Toda lobes. The small lobe is bigger than a stock B16 VTEC lobe! It will totally idle rough. Also, I didn't say you would stall at every light, but rather that is the type of idle you will experience, a rough one, not stock, call it what you will. The type of idle the modified Hemi Cudas have where you have to step on the gas a little bit for a smoother idle. Of course you won't stall at all of the lights, unless you throw either of these cams without valve springs and tit retainers. Well, then you might just stall for good.

 

[1Greyteg]

Yes, if you don't upgrade the powertrain and decide to take the RPM to past stock redline, you will be playing with fire.

And I have to also agree that he is not asking the right questions or stating what exactly what his goals are for the car.

But, Having driven a B18C5 with the Toda B's totally untuned, mated to LW flywheel. I have to firmly disagree that the B's will ptovide any sort of lumpy idle and even a possiblility of stall if the car is in proper running order,and install was done correctly.

Now, the C's are a different story, and are definately a rougher idle. But this stalling thing is not an issue with the car I drove with B's installed before tune. After tune it is just crisper in all facets of response and feel. It went from 186HP to 194 when the Intake cam was advanced just 4 degrees and the timing set at 15.

Just curious, but all looks of the cams aside, have you ever driven a hot cam setup import or tuned one? If so which one? And what engine was it in?

A.

 

[Savedsol]

Toda B's in a B16B (CTR) hatch. BTW the B's and C's have the small small cam lobes. The difference is in the large cam.

 

[skunkworksef]

skunk2s have been known to destroy valve trains todas you have to get the toda springs cause they're actually an eliptical shape as opposed to being round juns are really nice if they're tuned right and you'll also have to go with an entire jun valve train my suggestion is go with the todas i think they're the best and if you really want to go nuts get the vtec eliminator cams 14k redline but no power til about 7k not practical for street use but ungodly power just my insight on it im going with toda spec bs when i get the money

 

[Savedsol]

I remember that Skunk2 DID have a problem with ruining valvetrains or something like that. But that was more than a year ago. They have changed the metallurgy or design since then. In fact as of this month they have a whole new line up of three cam sets. Also there's a reason they call them VTEC "eleminator", the VTEC is gone. It's a whole rocker arm & cam package.

 

[All_motor_b16a2]

To make it more clear i want this to be a daily driver and i want to be able to pass smog And i dont want to stall at every light. with the toda spec b's can i use the jun valve springs or do i have to use the toda valve springs. And would it matter what retainers i use because im looking at the skunk2 ones

 

[Savedsol]

If you want a 15hp increase look at Type R's, Spoon, Toda A and Skunk2 Stage 1. Those are all good all around cams. According to Godspeed (godspeed.hack.net) you can use any upgraded (non ITR if going over 8000rpms) springs and retainers. They even offer Portflow in one their B packages. But require Toda springs for the C cams. Check out Toda's site todaracing.com and see why theu recommend their springs, it's interesting. B's WON'T pass emissions though and as mentioned will require the most tuning, but can be the most rewarding. My opinion if you're gonna do B's why not do C's? Same small lobe bigger VTEC lobe.

 

[lshybrid195]

i say go with the jun type 3 they will give u some hp

 

[wicked92hatch]

cams

we just finished a 2000 si (B16a2) with jun stage2 cams, cower springs and retainers and civic type r pistons with a mugen head gasket, cam gears, fuel rail/regulator, dc 4-2-1, test pipe, apexi catback dunk exhaust, and aem cold air. The motor has 11.4 :1 comp. and it made 201 at the wheels at 8200. the jun you can take to 9200 with the jun computer or the aem computer, either one is good. by the way stock power at the wheels 146, well worth the money. So i say go with the jun. Put jun in a type r with all the bolt-ons. The car wasn't tuned and ran a 13.60 on drag radials (ALL MOTOR) so we all like jun stage 2 cams

 

[XSiteg]

ok

ive had freinds that have had the spec b cams but i can tell u i used to work for automotive engineering and we used to deal with jun the jun 2 is much better im running jun stage 3 turbo cams in my cr/vtec civic so thats what i would go with the jun 2's

 

[5gencivic]

ive had freinds that have had the spec b cams but i can tell u i used to work for automotive engineering and we used to deal with jun the jun 2 is much better im running jun stage 3 turbo cams in my cr/vtec civic so thats what i would go with the jun 2's

Not to be a buzz kill or anything but you realize that this thread is over 3 years old right?