[legacyo13]

Alright. So I'm looking on which direction I should go on an ls/vtec. Right now I'm sitting with a stock ls, so nothing has been done yet. Just wondering which direction I should go in. High compression all-motor setup or a turbo setup.

B16A head on B18B block, TiTek adjustable cam gears, TODA B18C timing belt, titanium valves and retainers, Supertech valves, NGK 8mm spark plug wires, Pulstar spark plugs, BLOX intake manifold w/ 70mm throttlebody, Benen fuel rail, SARD fuel pressure regulator, AEM fuel filter, 255Lph fuel pump, Hondata intake gasket, B18B crankshaft, Unorthedox Racing pulleys, CTR N1crack pulley, forged LS rods, ARP head and rod studs, and a mild port and polish.

N/A - CTR intake cam, ITR exhaust cam, 310cc injectors, Comptech intake w/ icebox, mugen header, CTR pistons, and 98 spec ITR tranny. Aiming for 200+whp.

Turbo - Skunk2 Turbo 2+ cams, 440cc injectors, full-race top mount gt turbo kit (gt28rs), forged LS piston, and GSR tranny. Aiming for 250 to 300whp.

I'm not sure on which route to go. And I'm not looking to start arguments between which is better because I know the pros and cons of both. Just advice on what would be the best daily and weekend track car.

Any ideas on the better route? And should I get the block sleeved or will the stock sleeves hold up for my power goals? I'm not looking for anything faster, thats what sportbikes are for. Lol.

 

[Darkness]

oh god another one of these threads. what exactly do you need us to tell you. you have both setups listed. one will yield more power than the other. only you know what is better for you. if you're looking to have a power. n/a is a waste of time

 

[CapnToll]

Have you already build and paid for that head?

Anywho, you won't come close to 200whp with the build you specified on those cams in my opinion. It's easier to hit 200whp peak on GS-R/ITR bottom ends cuz you can rev the hell out of them. The LS bottom end shouldn't see anything about 7500-8000 even with aftermarket rods/bolts.

Turbo is an easy 300whp on the stock internals. That's a sweet turbo, and the build would be much less complicated if you go with a stock LS head. VTEC just complicates turbo tuning, and the only benefit is the slightly better flowing head.

200whp NA will probably cost you double compared to 300whp turbo. Whichever way you go, a bunch of the parts you specified are either wrong or not needed.

 

[legacyo13]

Haven't touched the head yet. I ordered everything minus the cams, valves, pistons, intake, header/turbo kit, intake manifold, clutch, and tranny. I went through and read the guide on an ls/vtec in the FAQs. I wasn't planning on running anything over 7800 (5000 vtec engaged) on an all-motor build, 7500 (4200 vtec) on a turbo. The forged internals are just for safety purposes. I just mostly want the bump in torque the ls/vtec offers. ITB's crossed my mind also for an all-motor setup, but not sure if I should use it for a dd. I also thought about getting a victory X intake manifold for a turbo kit.

But mostly I'm just wanting to see the opinions of people who have driven both a turbo'd ls/vtec and an all-motor ls/vtec. See which they preferred over the other. Not meaning to have another "WHAT SHOULD I DO!!!!" thread, lol. I'm just curious as to what will yeild better results for a daily/track car. I know the turbo will be good for drag, but I'm wanting to run a full course, especially since there's one opening up near me.

So far all I have are the bare essentials for both builds. I've also heard alot of good things about this turbo, I've never personally driven a car with one. Only ebay t3/t4 turbo's and a stock supra tt.

I also haven't decided on a clutch yet. I want a Comp Clutch twin disc racing clutch, but I've never run a twin disc on the streets, so I was thinking an ACT 6 puck if a twin disc would be too much.

 

[Darkness]

a high powered ls/vtec is boring to drive as a daily driver. i've ridding in a 196whp lsvtec fully built

seriously they have no midrange upmf, they just rev.

he said he trade this setup for a b18b boosted any day of the week

 

[legacyo13]

So boost would be the better route? Any idea on what trim I should use for the turbo. I'm wanting something that'll have power out of the turn.

 

[Darkness]

So boost would be the better route? Any idea on what trim I should use for the turbo. I'm wanting something that'll have power out of the turn.

that's up to you. i personally think n/a hondas suck. so much money for so little gains. but that's my opinion.

 

[legacyo13]

I personally think it depends on the motor. I've seen an all-motor ls/vtec take down a boosted ls. But I blame it on an ebay turbo kit. Those things are hit or miss. Mostly misses, lol. The funniest beat down I've ever seen came from a 4 door eg with an ebay boosted d15b vtec (completely stock motor) beating a fully built all-motor h22 eg hatch. That was probably the biggest shock to all of us. Lol.

I was thinking of going with a 60 trim wheel with a .60 A/R compressor, with a 76 trim wheel with a .63 A/R turbine. That should give me full boost early in the powerband. Which is why the redline on an ls/vtec wouldn't be a problem for me. The boost should start dying off around then.

 

[Darkness]

I personally think it depends on the motor. I've seen an all-motor ls/vtec take down a boosted ls. But I blame it on an ebay turbo kit. Those things are hit or miss. Mostly misses, lol. The funniest beat down I've ever seen came from a 4 door eg with an ebay boosted d15b vtec (completely stock motor) beating a fully built all-motor h22 eg hatch. That was probably the biggest shock to all of us. Lol.

I was thinking of going with a 60 trim wheel with a .60 A/R compressor, with a 76 trim wheel with a .63 A/R turbine. That should give me full boost early in the powerband. Which is why the redline on an ls/vtec wouldn't be a problem for me. The boost should start dying off around then.

the fact that it's boosted doesn't mean shit. it also depends what car it's in and what hte setup is. but all motor hondas making real power aren't fun for the street. they have no midrange at all. your power comes on near 5k rpms, they're better suited for a road race. there are so many factors. if you want your car to be fun and fast boost is definitely the better option. i personly don't like having to wait till 5000 rpms for any kind of power

 

[CapnToll]

the fact that it's boosted doesn't mean shit. it also depends what car it's in and what hte setup is. but all motor hondas making real power aren't fun for the street. they have no midrange at all. your power comes on near 5k rpms, they're better suited for a road race. there are so many factors. if you want your car to be fun and fast boost is definitely the better option. i personly don't like having to wait till 5000 rpms for any kind of power

It's an acquired taste :hehe

....that lasts about a year or so.

If you really want a fast street car that will perform at the auto-cross....either spend $6500+ for a 220whp B18C5 build (that can possibly be made streetable), or put aside $3000 or less depending on how well you can budget and shop and boost the thing aiming for a low-end powerband goal.

 

[legacyo13]

Yeah I feel ya. Both those motors were in integras. I don't trust ebay kits all that much, thats why I blame it on the kit. I feel ya on not wanting to wait until you hit 5000 to get power. I just figured the extra torque from the ls/vtec would come on earlier. I guess I'm aiming for boost then. I'm hoping this kit will hit its power anywhere from 3000 to 4200. Thanks for the help on which way to go.

Any idea on the clutch I should use is? ACT 6 puck w/ prolite flywheel or Comp Clutch's twin disc racing clutch w/ lightened flywheel. It's about a $300 difference between the 2.

 

[legacyo13]

It's an acquired taste :hehe

....that lasts about a year or so.

If you really want a fast street car that will perform at the auto-cross....either spend $6500+ for a 220whp B18C5 build (that can possibly be made streetable), or put aside $3000 or less depending on how well you can budget and shop and boost the thing aiming for a low-end powerband goal.

Yeah, a type-r has crossed my mind. Especially with a jdm front end conversion. But building it up cost too much for my budget, lol.

 

[CapnToll]

The reason why many "eBay" kits get the bad rap that you're talking about is because they hardly have a range of sizes below "monster." They make peak power because they're so huge, but they have absolutely no power below 5000 rpm. This leads to crappy drag strip times at very high trap speeds....and leads to not having much dignity on the street unless you're planning on hitting 125mph.

Go with whatever clutch meets your power goals. Give yourself like a 50hp cushion or so when looking at clutch power holding specs. You should be pretty happy with the GT28 or GT28 disco potato....if you can afford it.

 

[legacyo13]

Ebay kits are hit or miss. I've seen some really nice ones that respond early in the powerband, and I've seen some that show no power at all. Not to mention how many ebay manifolds I've seen crack. You get what you pay for, lol.

I've heard of a gt28 disco potato before, but I honestly have no idea what it is, lol. Care to shed some light on that.

 

[CapnToll]

Just another turbo by Garrett. It's a ball bearing turbo, pretty good for our smaller (< 2.0L) motors. I think it's called disco potato because of the shape of the compressor map (check Garrett's website (turbobygarrett.com)). It spools pretty quick from what I've read. Garrett's website says the 'S' refers to it's higher flowing nature.

WVU knows more about these mostly 240SX style turbos.

 

[9400rpms]

that's up to you. i personally think n/a hondas suck. so much money for so little gains. but that's my opinion.

he says this.

but if you watch my video of my silly 220whp all motor integra skull dragging a 401whp built ls/vtec sc61 turboed car


you'll understand that with the right combination of parts, tuning and gearing.. you dont need all that horsepower to go fast.

 

[9400rpms]

What do you want..

how fast u wanna go


what do you perfer, reving to the moon or hearing a psst sound

do you wanna take the easy way out and just go fast and spending 2500 dollars

or do you want to actually learn what your doing and why your going fast as well as learn the physics of a motor?


I tune turbo cars every other week, i just tuned a STOCK gsr, completely bone stock nothing but a silly t3/t4 50 trim turbo setup.

made 320 at 15psi and runs 12.8's on streets all day long. STOCK GSR people with my crome pro tuning.

Its a fast as shit car.. it'll pull a z06 noproblem. But its a easy way out.. the kid knows nothing, he had someone put a kit on here, and i tuned it.. if u asked him what turbo he had he'd say i dunno..
he thinks its cool to have a turbo..

pretty soon he's going to get made fun of because he doesn't even know why he goes fast...

 

[Darkness]

What do you want..

how fast u wanna go


what do you perfer, reving to the moon or hearing a psst sound

do you wanna take the easy way out and just go fast and spending 2500 dollars

or do you want to actually learn what your doing and why your going fast as well as learn the physics of a motor?


I tune turbo cars every other week, i just tuned a STOCK gsr, completely bone stock nothing but a silly t3/t4 50 trim turbo setup.

made 320 at 15psi and runs 12.8's on streets all day long. STOCK GSR people with my crome pro tuning.

Its a fast as shit car.. it'll pull a z06 noproblem. But its a easy way out.. the kid knows nothing, he had someone put a kit on here, and i tuned it.. if u asked him what turbo he had he'd say i dunno..
he thinks its cool to have a turbo..

pretty soon he's going to get made fun of because he doesn't even know why he goes fast...

bullshit if you say boost is the easy way out to build a motor. fact is if you pay people to build your motor for you and tune it for you, you won't learn shit either way. if you do actual research and "build" your motor and spend time selecting the right trim turbo etc etc, you'll learn to build your motor as well. proper cams for ideal power band of the turbo, not just slapping an ebay t3/t4 turbo on your stock ride and calling it a day. that'd be no different than some rich kid buying some, cams, valves, springs, retainers, head studs, head gasket, rods and pistons, and paying you to put it together for him. it's just the same amount of effort put into a turbo build yields higher hp results.

the same parameters go into building a properly built turbo car as they do a properly built n/a car.

this is what i mean. a complete custom build.
gtir itb's, a completely custom variable geometry turbo, bored to 2.1 liters to fit mahle pistons, forged rods,arp head studs, race bearing, balanced and blueprinted, complete custom tune my boy steve did himself. this is just his latest setup. his last one made 475 rwhp with a 500 dollar turbo that outspools a gt2871r. this current setup will see boost around 2600 rpms and flow like a gt42r up top. good for over 600rwhp

 

[legacyo13]

I want something moderately fast for the streets, but I'm still looking to retain traction. Don't need to get stopped by cops at every stop sign. But looking to set it up so I can have a fully capable track car for the weekends.

 

[therealnapster]

buy good tires before anything else, just my personal opinion