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This may be just a vent session and maybe I'm just getting tired of NASCAR (after all these years) but, NASCAR has got to bring the 60s era powertrain setups to 21st century standards. These cars haven't changed since my parents were in grade school.

This is what (I think) really keeps Toyota and Honda from entering NASCAR:
I keep hearing Todd Helton (and all the other schmucks at NASCAR) saying that they want to keep the carbeurated V8, 4sp setup in order to keep costs (to teams) down. BULL!! There are two main reasons why these dorks want this setup: 1) They don't want the 'infiltration' of foreign makes in NASCAR races and 2) They know they couldn't police teams when it comes to high tech power tuning (i.e.: chips).

(And what the HELL is this about limiting the speeds. Hello!! It's a --- RACE!! If any of these drivers are really afraid to go fast, tell them to take up Golf!! )

To NASCAR: GET OVER IT. Ford, GM and Chrysler don't learn ANYTHING new about automotive development from NASCAR racing and "technology" (or lack thereof) Most of the technological powertrain features of the Ford Taurus came from Indy and CART racing, not NASCAR. And how much can you learn about chassis setup and brake technology. (Ridiculous :mad: ) On top of that, the stock Taurus, Grand Prix, Monte Carlo, and Intrepid dont even offer a carbeurated V8 or manual tranny. (As far as I know, the last manual tranny in any of these models was in the 2nd generation Taurus SHO and the last V8 was offered in the 3rd gen Taurus SHO.)

These guys need to make a change to EFI cars as soon as possible, 'cause there aren't enough backwoods ******** in the world that can support NASCAR, in terms of ticket sales. (They can barely support the beer cans in their hands.) At some point, the non-saavy fans are going to realize that the cars in their garage are superior to what they're seeing race around Daytona.

NASCAR needs to change over to fuel injected V8 in order to improve the dynamics of stock car racing. Then, we should start seeing a BMW 5 series or Honda Accord out there mixing it up.

Just my $.02 (and change)

f23a4

Also, can someone talk Jeff Burton into sharing some of his personality with his older brother Ward? Ward has got the personality of a corpse!!
 

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F23A4 said:

Also, can someone talk Jeff Burton into sharing some of his personality with his older brother Ward? Ward has got the personality of a corpse!!
Ya he has no personality, but his accent is funny as hell!! :)
 

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Toyota Celica's are currently run in the Nascar Goody's Dash series. Toyota is also looking into the Craftsman Truck series, but to do that, they will need to develop a pushrod V-8. Nascar has been considering fuel injection, but that is a long way off if at all. Policing the power levels of computer controlled cars would not be difficult, as displacement limits are an easy enough way to do that.
 

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Fuel injection is nice, but carbuerated engines are easier to get more power out of.

But pushrod... yecch. Two valves per cylinder is so passe. Ford makes two V6 Taurii, one which is pushrod (IIRC) and two-valve, and one which is overhead cam and four-valve. Both displace three liters. Guess which one makes 150HP, and which one makes 200HP?

Not that I'd ever buy a Ford... :p
 

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your also forgetting that these cars are RWD and the taurus, intrepid and the grand prix are not, the point of NASCAR is not to get faster and reach new undiscovered territory its to have everyone in equal machines so that its the driver that wins.

i mean domestics suck anyhow, very unsophisticated.. that must be why Porsche helped design my engine, and also why the ZETEC is all the rage nowadays with all that focus hype...
 

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91 EX-R said:
Carbs are cheaper, but fuel injection will make the most power.
It really is quite easy to get extra power out of a carbed engine. In the first-gen Civics, you could upgrade the carb and get an extra ~20HP. That is pretty good, considering that the car is in the 60s on both HP and torque, stock. Many older V6es and V8s have carb options available that will cut loose around 30 extra HP.

Carburetors generally deliver better airflow than equivalent EFI systems. They can be had with up to four barrells.

Now, not all fuel systems are created equal. There are really great EFI systems and really crappy carbs. It depends on how much $$$ and time you have to tune your system. EFI does have an advantage over some (not all) carburetion systems in that it allows for fine-tuning of the torque curve.
 

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PseudoRealityX said:
hmm, they keep cutting speeds down in F1 too....guess its not REAL racing either...
Since when .......

Every year they put a little more restriction on aerodynamics and on the engines ..... yet the engines are now back to close to 900 hp (the Williams is already rumored to be there, with the average team at about 825) ..... and the record times at the tracks keep dropping ......

I seriously doubt if F1 cars will be back to the heyday of the 1200 hp 1.5L turbo Honda engines of the late '80's, but hey, they aren't far off ..........
 

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Daremo said:


Since when .......

Every year they put a little more restriction on aerodynamics and on the engines ..... yet the engines are now back to close to 900 hp (the Williams is already rumored to be there, with the average team at about 825) ..... and the record times at the tracks keep dropping ......

I seriously doubt if F1 cars will be back to the heyday of the 1200 hp 1.5L turbo Honda engines of the late '80's, but hey, they aren't far off ..........
How many grooves are in the tires now? They arent allowed full slicks because they would simply get TOO MUCH grip.
 
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