Stock tachometer's and stock Engine Speed sensors are netoriously inaccurate. Mostly due to the electronic lag between the sensor and the meter. As far as I know fuel cut is at 8200 stock and the visual redline is at 8000. Shifting in 1st and second after 8000 but before 8200 is a good idea. It's really a function of your engine and your reaction time. But the needle is moving slower in 3rd so it's a bit more accurate visually. Modifying your stock Redline really won't help much. I've found a little gain by shifting at 8500. Your cam profile has alot to do with that. Mostly my gain is from ending up higher in my hp band after I shift. Basically I set up my Hondata for 9000 redline, low VTEC (not giving away all my secrets) and shift between 8000-8500. Hope this helps.

 

Stock tachometer's and stock Engine Speed sensors are netoriously inaccurate. Mostly due to the electronic lag between the sensor and the meter. As far as I know fuel cut is at 8200 stock and the visual redline is at 8000. Shifting in 1st and second after 8000 but before 8200 is a good idea. It's really a function of your engine and your reaction time. But the needle is moving slower in 3rd so it's a bit more accurate visually. Modifying your stock Redline really won't help much. I've found a little gain by shifting at 8500. Your cam profile has alot to do with that. Mostly my gain is from ending up higher in my hp band after I shift. Basically I set up my Hondata for 9000 redline, low VTEC (not giving away all my secrets) and shift between 8000-8500. Hope this helps.

That is the best explanation I've ever heard

And it's true the 99-00 Civic Si you don't want to shift at redline anyway. Power tops out at 7900rpms.

 

People get confused on this because many sites on the internet don't make a distinction between the redline (on the tachometer) and the rev limit (the ECU's fuel cutoff).

Redline of the B16A2 is 8000, fuel cut is 8200.

My Civic's power with the stock cams drops off after about 7500 or so. Shifting at 8000 or slightly above allows the engine to stay in VTEC after the shift.

JDM 2nd-gen B16A has a redline of 8200 and fuel cutoff at 8400. Their power peaks closer to 8000, due to slightly more aggressive cams and higher compression.

 

Stock tachometer's and stock Engine Speed sensors are netoriously inaccurate. Mostly due to the electronic lag between the sensor and the meter. As far as I know fuel cut is at 8200 stock and the visual redline is at 8000. Shifting in 1st and second after 8000 but before 8200 is a good idea. It's really a function of your engine and your reaction time. But the needle is moving slower in 3rd so it's a bit more accurate visually. Modifying your stock Redline really won't help much. I've found a little gain by shifting at 8500. Your cam profile has alot to do with that. Mostly my gain is from ending up higher in my hp band after I shift. Basically I set up my Hondata for 9000 redline, low VTEC (not giving away all my secrets) and shift between 8000-8500. Hope this helps.

if anyone who has a stock b16 head here, please dont listen to this, your going to damage your head revving that high without upgrading the valvetrain, not only will the valve train not be able to take it the cams dont make power that high and as ur revvin up that extra rpm when power is going down, ur only slowing yourself down. just check dynos and u will see power siginifficatly drop off.

 

if anyone who has a stock b16 head here, please dont listen to this, your going to damage your head revving that high without upgrading the valvetrain, not only will the valve train not be able to take it the cams dont make power that high and as ur revvin up that extra rpm when power is going down, ur only slowing yourself down. just check dynos and u will see power siginifficatly drop off.

he did not list his mods so callin him out is :bs:......., that was the best explanation i have seen from most of the members on this board......

 

is the peak HP at 7900????
I thought it was 7600...

 

is the peak HP at 7900????
I thought it was 7600...

It's around there, in the mid 7000s. Every engine is a little different, but it is generally in the mid 7000s with stock USDM B16A cams. Honda rates the USDM B16A as having 160hp @ 7600 RPM.

When accelerating wide open, as with drag racing or on a road course, you will want to shift right around 8000 RPM regardless of where the power peak is so that you'll land in VTEC in the next gear. The transmission is geared so that a shift at 8000 will land above 5500 in the next gear. If you're autocrossing, it doesn't matter, shift whenever you feel necessary - both short shifting and riding the rev limiter are sometimes necessary.

 

it doesnt matter if power drops off with the stock cams and stock fuel cut off, with the 00 si with its short tranny if you dont shift at 8 or higher youll be in a lower rpm the next gear, and yes past 8 i feel the car drop off, so i shift at 8, its really not hard,

question though

since honda made the fuel cutoff 82k does that mean no harm can come to our motor

 

it doesnt matter if power drops off with the stock cams and stock fuel cut off, with the 00 si with its short tranny if you dont shift at 8 or higher youll be in a lower rpm the next gear, and yes past 8 i feel the car drop off, so i shift at 8, its really not hard,

question though

since honda made the fuel cutoff 82k does that mean no harm can come to our motor

at 8200rpm, no

 

if anyone who has a stock b16 head here, please dont listen to this, your going to damage your head revving that high without upgrading the valvetrain, not only will the valve train not be able to take it the cams dont make power that high and as ur revvin up that extra rpm when power is going down, ur only slowing yourself down.

Every car is different even from factory. A 1000 RPM increase over stock redline is not going to destroy your valve train. If it does then your valvetrain was seriously problematic to begin with. Yes it won't make power up that high but unless you're running cams with larger lift (not durration) you do not need to upgrade your valvetrain to handle a 1000 RPM bump. Of course unless you're a total icy hot sutuna and like to rev your engine so you can take down that Accent that's been taunting you.

The point at which your shift should be based on your torque curve not your HP. You should shift at a point that lands you at the same torque ouput after the shift. Basic engineering there.

 

my two cents. manufacturers also choose valvetrains with respect to possible over-rev situations in mind and pick a stock valvetrain that can handle between 500-1500rpm over stock redline in case of driver/mechanical error. At least this is the way it is with fords as there have been documented cases of the ecu not activating the fuel cut at redline due to improper signal from the tach feed.

this is actually the bean counters at work thinking ahead and going with the little more expensive valvetrain components versus the warranty replacement of a much more expensive engine assembly. So take it for what it's worth, the stock valvetrain on the B16 can probably handle the 8500rpm shifts...though there's always that chance...

 

The B16A stock valvetrain can handle 8500 RPM, but repeatedly revving above that would risk floating and bending valves, if not worse - dropping a valve and destroying the engine.

If you want to rev above 8500, I suggest you replace the valve springs. Also, stock cams stop making power before 8000 RPM, so revving up to 8500 with stock camshafts is rather pointless.

question though

since honda made the fuel cutoff 82k does that mean no harm can come to our motor

No it doesn't. You can mechanically override the rev limiter by simply downshifting to a lower gear if your speed is too high in the current gear. I.E., if you're going 80mph in your Civic Si and you downshift to second, you'll spin the engine to 10,800 RPM regardless of the fuel cut.

 

Every car is different even from factory. A 1000 RPM increase over stock redline is not going to destroy your valve train. If it does then your valvetrain was seriously problematic to begin with. Yes it won't make power up that high but unless you're running cams with larger lift (not durration) you do not need to upgrade your valvetrain to handle a 1000 RPM bump. Of course unless you're a total icy hot sutuna and like to rev your engine so you can take down that Accent that's been taunting you.

The point at which your shift should be based on your torque curve not your HP. You should shift at a point that lands you at the same torque ouput after the shift. Basic engineering there.

you say so but im not going to do that

9000 is astronomical, and if power drops off at 82 than shifting higher than that is just for braggin rights

 

That is the best explanation I've ever heard

And it's true the 99-00 Civic Si you don't want to shift at redline anyway. Power tops out at 7900rpms.

hey buddy, ive got a b16a1 in my lil piece of shit hatch. does the power top out at 7800 in that jdm motor as well? i know its 7800/7900 peak for my 00 si but i was wondering for the hatch because thats the one i actually like to bring to the track and fuck around with

 

hey buddy, ive got a b16a1 in my lil piece of shit hatch. does the power top out at 7800 in that jdm motor as well? i know its 7800/7900 peak for my 00 si but i was wondering for the hatch because thats the one i actually like to bring to the track and fuck around with

how loud is the turbo in that si? and does it spool around the time vtec engages.... (always wondered what boost and vtec would feel like)

 

hey buddy, ive got a b16a1 in my lil piece of shit hatch. does the power top out at 7800 in that jdm motor as well? i know its 7800/7900 peak for my 00 si but i was wondering for the hatch because thats the one i actually like to bring to the track and fuck around with

The power peaks in the mid 7000's with a stock USDM B16A2; with stock USDM cams the power does not peak as high as 7800-7900 RPM. Also, the 1st-gen JDM B16A is identical to the USDM B16A, so their power curves are the same. The 2nd-gen JDM B16A has more aggressive cams and a higher compression ratio, and fuel cuts at 8400 as opposed to 8200 - so the 2nd-gen JDM B16A's power curve does peak in the upper 7000's (Honda says 7800 RPM).

This is a dyno chart showing the power curve of a bone stock USDM '99 B16A2: http://www.geocities.com/dynocenter/todasi1.gif. You can see the power curve reaches its peak at about 7400 RPM, then drops off after 7500 or so. Honda claims the peak of the USDM B16A is 7600 RPM, so it is safe to say the peak will fall in the mid 7000's.

Copy and paste the link above into your browser's address bar if it doesn't show up.

 

The power peaks in the mid 7000's with a stock USDM B16A2; with stock USDM cams the power does not peak as high as 7800-7900 RPM. Also, the 1st-gen JDM B16A is identical to the USDM B16A, so their power curves are the same. The 2nd-gen JDM B16A has more aggressive cams and a higher compression ratio, and fuel cuts at 8400 as opposed to 8200 - so the 2nd-gen JDM B16A's power curve does peak in the upper 7000's (Honda says 7800 RPM).

This is a dyno chart showing the power curve of a bone stock USDM '99 B16A2: http://www.geocities.com/dynocenter/todasi1.gif. You can see the power curve reaches its peak at about 7400 RPM, then drops off after 7500 or so. Honda claims the peak of the USDM B16A is 7600 RPM, so it is safe to say the peak will fall in the mid 7000's.

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Baically waht i waas about to post. i had thought that people had forgeooten about the differnt motors.
USDM B16's have weaker cams and a poorly designed intake manifold. these 2 things hurt power up top.

the JDM B16a2 has the aggresive cams and an intake mani simmilar to that on a type R integra c5 motor...

props for knowing ur stuff targa, you took the words right out of my mouth

 

I have a stock B16 and i shift at 8,500 everytime.

I know the stock tach is not accurate. But i feel power till 8500 so i push the car till it goes.

 

I have a stock B16 and i shift at 8,500 everytime.

I know the stock tach is not accurate. But i feel power till 8500 so i push the car till it goes.

yeup, course my tach is about 400 off or better up there..so its about right